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-   -   NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=308323)

dzcad90 October 14th, 2009 16:44

NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation
 
This thread has been moved from the MkVI section to the TDI News section as it covers a wide scope of vehicles, and of course, it's news!

timwagon February 11th, 2011 12:18

NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation
 
Bloomberg Business news just posted this update on the NHTSA investigation of the HPFP failure.

VW insists that all HPFP failures are caused by "mis-fueling" issues.

NHTSA is estimating that 0.53% of 2009 models (1 in 200) and 0.11% of 2010 models (1 in 1,000) have experienced these failures.

According to the report, the HPFP pump has now been redesigned three times!

This issue has been escalated by NHTSA and may result in a recall.

Bloomberg Article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ump-flaws.html

NHTSA document:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/do...10034-6542.PDF

Jackiechan005 February 11th, 2011 12:35

"Volkswagen indicated that the testing of fuel samples from complaint vehicles found that nearly 90 percent contained high amounts of gasoline. Volkswagen implemented design changes for the HPFP in May 2008, September 2009 and November 2010 to
improve the robustness of the pump when used with poor quality fuel."

Anyone know what design changes were implemented?

TDIMeister February 11th, 2011 12:35

0.01% is 1 in 10,000.

NHTSA intensifies probe into 100,000 VW diesel vehicles

Federal safety regulators stepped up an investigation into nearly 100,000 Volkswagen and Audi diesel vehicles over fuel pump failures.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said today it had upgraded its investigation into 97,272 diesel 2009-10 Volkswagen Jetta, 2010 Volkswagen Golf and Audi A3 vehicles.

ilyago February 11th, 2011 12:37

From the NHTSA document, VW mostly blames most cases on gasoline contaminated diesel fuel, but also states that:

Volkswagen implemented design changes for the HPFP in May 2008, September 2009 and November 2010 to improve the robustness of the pump when used with poor quality fuel.



timwagon February 11th, 2011 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDIMeister (Post 3289176)
0.01% is 1 in 10,000.

Thanks, corrected OP to actual numbers from NHTSA findings, .53% (2009) and .11% (2010),

-TimWagon

timwagon February 11th, 2011 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilyago (Post 3289181)
From the NHTSA document, VW mostly blames most cases on gasoline contaminated diesel fuel, but also states that:

Volkswagen implemented design changes for the HPFP in May 2008, September 2009 and November 2010 to improve the robustness of the pump when used with poor quality fuel.



VW's current stance is: DENY, DENY DENY.

If it's only caused by gasoline contamination, why three separate HPFP redesigns?

Why redesign the HPFP at all if it's not a bad pump issue?

quadrun1 February 11th, 2011 12:46

According to the NHTSA document,

For 2009 the number is 0.53% (roughly 1 in 200)
For 2010 the number is 0.11% (roughly 1 in 1000) (not 0.01% which would be 1 in 10,000)

Jason

timwagon February 11th, 2011 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadrun1 (Post 3289197)
According to the NHTSA document,

For 2009 the number is 0.53% (roughly 1 in 200)
For 2010 the number is 0.11% (roughly 1 in 1000) (not 0.01% which would be 1 in 10,000)

Jason

-typo in OP has already been corrected

dubStrom February 11th, 2011 12:51

I had a feeling that design changes (or at least improvements in quality control at bosch) were underway.

I bought my car in May last year (full tax credit!!), but I wonder if it got one of the last, most recent fuel pumps? I would like to know manufacture dates for the last HPFP version, and check it against my engine build date.

ruking February 11th, 2011 12:55

Indeed. If the pump was "RE" designed 3 times, does that mean the only ones to receive one of the three/four were the ones that failed? I know for example I still have the oem factory HPFP. So if one fails a second time, does IT now get the 2nd/3rd redesign, etc? Or is it dictated by WHEN the HPFP fails and they just use the latest and greatest upgrades? PN#'s bear no evidence of any sequential upgrades (so for example (DASH-) -1,-2,-3, -4)

Looks like the ground work is being laid for a FULL recall. I would assume that VW would give all of us (except those already fixed) the latest and greatest upgrade so they do not have to do ANOTHER full scale recall.

These published numbers were quite helpful in that I had swagged the 09 (one that I have) were 1% or less. Seems the math indicates a schosh more than one half of 1 percent.

ksing44 February 11th, 2011 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadrun1 (Post 3289197)
According to the NHTSA document,

For 2009 the number is 0.53% (roughly 1 in 200)
For 2010 the number is 0.11% (roughly 1 in 1000) (not 0.01% which would be 1 in 10,000)

Jason

If 90% really are from using gasoline, then the failure rate might be 0.01%, or 1/10,000 for folks that are sure to only use diesel. I'm just doing some wishful thinking with this, not trying to be a jerk.

I do wish I had a car with the November 2010 upgraded pump. I guess my car only has 2 of the updates. It would be nice to know what they did to improve the pump. Honestly, I wish they would just come up with something to prevent the debris from contaminating the fuel system. Then it would just be a new pump for a few hundred bucks, not really a big deal at all.

timwagon February 11th, 2011 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubStrom (Post 3289209)
I had a feeling that design changes (or at least improvements in quality control at bosch) were underway.

I bought my car in May last year (full tax credit!!), but I wonder if it got one of the last, most recent fuel pumps? I would like to know manufacture dates for the last HPFP version, and check it against my engine build date.

Last pump update was November, 2010, according to the NHTSA report.

The link to the NHTSA report is in the OP.

dubStrom February 11th, 2011 13:13

find someone dumping their 09Jetta!
 
So now I would feel confident buying someone's 09' TDI at a bargain. I know some folks were dumping them, ranting on this site about how they felt outrage (I am sympathetic). Get an '09 prefailure Jetta or Golf at substantial discount, install one of the new pumps, and sail on!!!

Yes! Maybe I should look for a used 2.0 CR Golf 6MT now?

timwagon February 11th, 2011 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksing44 (Post 3289228)
If 90% really are from using gasoline, then the failure rate might be 0.01%, or 1/10,000 for folks that are sure to only use diesel.

I do wish I had a car with the November 2010 upgraded pump. I guess my car only has 2 of the updates. It would be nice to now what they did to improve the pump. Honestly, I wish they would just come up with soemthing to prevent the debris from contaminating the fuel system. Then it would just be a new pump for a few hundred bucks.

VW's 90% number is pure bulls%$t, as far as I'm concerned.

Who ran these fuel tests, and who certified the test results?

It's apparent that NHTSA is not buying VW's claims, as they've opened a full engineering investigation.

I'll bet the three separate HPFP redesigns in less than two years has also been met with suspicion by NHTSA.

Apparently, VW has learned nothing from the Toyota recall disaster.

It's always better to get out ahead of a defect issue than to delay and deny, which only makes the issue worse, and ends up driving away customers.


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