How is the Passat TDI in the snow?

joem

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Feb 25, 2009
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Cooperstown,NY
TDI
Still waiting for a ALLTRACK TDI AWD
I had a 2002 Passat 1.8L 2wd auto GLS that got wrecked :mad: in 2005. It was the best car I ever owned. I owned it on long Island and drive it with ease in the snow covered Flat Terrain.

I now live in snow country and would like a 04/05 Passat TDI. The problem is my slick snow covered driveway is a 100' climb in 850 running feet. Our 2006 Subaru Forester and 2005 Dodge Cummin 4x4 climb it like squrills climbing a tree with ease 90% for the time. I have a knock around 96 Crown Vic that just sits in the barn half the year due to the driveway.

Do you think I need to just get another 1.8L gas w/ the addition of 4Motion or will the front wheel drive TDI work well?

Thanks
 

abctdi

Top Post Dawg
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Mar 31, 2004
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ABQ, NM, USA
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2005 Passat GLS
How deep is the snow? With good tires and less than 4-5 inches (not plowing), it should be no problem if you also have the ASR, ESP and ELD options.
 

joem

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Location
Cooperstown,NY
TDI
Still waiting for a ALLTRACK TDI AWD
What does each of these options do? Where I lived befor I never had to research what they did.
 

blaz

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Apr 16, 2006
Location
Ontario Canada
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05 Passat
A guess, but with the Passat's simple traction control, front wheel drive and some really good snow tires, I think it will work, if the snow's not too deep. I would get some really grippy snow tires like blizzaks.
 

abctdi

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Mar 31, 2004
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ABQ, NM, USA
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2005 Passat GLS
ASR=anti slip regulation, prevents wheel spin (via ABS IIRC)
ESP=Electronic Stability Control
ELD=electronic locking differential
These came with the cold weather package that included heated mirrors and seats IIRC.
"The ESP system works in conjunction with the Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), Anti-slip Regulation (ASR) system as well as components of the Electronic Differential Lock (EDL) system."
 

MOGolf

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underneath something
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2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6, 2019 Jaguar I-PACE
Most, if not all 04s came with ESP. A lot of the 05s came with just ASR since VW chose to de-content the vehicles to keep the price tag the same, but with less on them.

EDL is nothing more than the ECM cutting back power to the wheels when it gets a signal from the ABS controller.

ASR applies the brakes to the spinning front wheel. It helps to get the car moving from a stop sign/light, for example.

ESP is definitely a nice-to-have item on icy surfaces. It will apply the brakes to any of the wheels as necessary to assist in keeping the car from spinning out. Obviously, it works best at lower speeds.
 

Lug_Nut

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idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
Get some real snow tires for the vicky, the ones with the "alpin mountain" logo on them, not some phony all-season tires.
Get them in the narrowest width (first three numbers in the size) that will fit on your rims.
Get them in a tall aspect ratio to keep close to the summer tire's tread diameter.
My worst winter car was an '84 Volvo 760, open diff, no ABS, no traction control, 205-50-15 snow tires.
My second best winter car was that same Volvo with a set of 155-80-15 Hakkapeliitta NR-08.



EDL uses the ABS sensors and applies brake force to the faster spinning drive wheel. It doesn't "lock" the diff, but tries to keep both drive wheels within about 100 rpm of each other. There is no comparison the the non-driven wheels. There is no torque reduction. It is possible to merrily spin both drive wheels while the rears are stationary.

ASR reduces engine torque as a next stage after EDL by comparing the, by now, matched drive wheel's speed to the non-drive wheels' speed and then reduces engine power to try to keep the both front tires from spinning and reducing traction.

ESP is the nuts! This compares all four wheels' speeds and somehow (steering angle sensors? Gyroscopes? Voodoo?) determines which way the car is pointed and from the speed differentials deduces which way it's actually moving. It will then apply braking to any wheel independently to attempt to bring the wheel rotation speeds and the steering angle back into co-ordination.
 
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joem

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Joined
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Location
Cooperstown,NY
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Still waiting for a ALLTRACK TDI AWD
Great info! My problem is the icy packed down snow and not the deep stuff. when it is deep I have the truck to use. I keep up on my plowing chore, but when it re-freezes at night "Away you go" especially on the way down to the road.

I know I feel confident I could get around 30 mpg with the 1.8L 4motion in my area which is mostly rural. Having the choice I would rather get in the 40's with the TDI.
 

Lug_Nut

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You're in NY state. Studs are legal in the winter. Get a set of four studded snows for the Crown-V, leave the nicer cars home until the roads clear.
Even a TDI with alphabet soup for options will need some snow tires so you'll be buying some no matter what.
Snow tires.... or snow tires and another car payment....
 

Matthew_S

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IMO the TDI Passat doesn't make a lot of sense. It cost more, doesn't get exceptional fuel economy and is unavailable with a manual transmission. The 1.8t will probably be much cheaper to acquire and will likely get 80% of the fuel economy of the TDI. I would say get the 1.8t even if it's not a 4motion.
 

v8volvo

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WA
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2001 Jetta
Matthew_S said:
IMO the TDI Passat doesn't make a lot of sense. It cost more, doesn't get exceptional fuel economy and is unavailable with a manual transmission. The 1.8t will probably be much cheaper to acquire and will likely get 80% of the fuel economy of the TDI. I would say get the 1.8t even if it's not a 4motion.
Careful... those words are blasphemy around here! ;)

In the big Seattle snowstorm in December, our Passat didn't perform very well. However, I think that was almost completely the fault of the stock Continental EcoPlus tires it had on it.

What makes a car good in the snow mostly has to do with good steering, good balance, a manual transmission, and a low center of gravity. The Passat has most of those, and FWD and all the electronic aid stuff helps too. Plus the diesel torque is easy to modulate, very precise throttle control on these. I think it has the potential to be a very good snow car with the right tires. The only liabilities are the auto trans and the ground clearance, which is low enough that it's easy to drag nose or tail or get high-centered if the stuff is deep and they haven't been plowing. (speaking from experience...)

As Lug Nut said, the most key thing of all are a set of really good tires. You don't need a big 4x4 to get around well in the white stuff if you have proper rubber. My Rabbit with narrow studded snows on it never once got stuck in the big storm, and we have steep hills in Seattle! I cruised past lots of stuck Subarus and SUVs with all-seasons on them that didn't make it.

The only other reservation I'd have about the TDI in the snow is that the diesel doesn't really love cold weather. Your MPG will not be great sometimes, since these things really need to be warm to get full efficiency. Perhaps no better than the small gasser under some circumstances if your trips are short. Invest in a TDIHeater if you really want a TDI and will be doing a lot of that. The BHW motor has some serious problems (ceramic glowplugs, plastic waterpump impeller, and of course the balance shaft drive issue), but with those fixed it is probably a pretty solid mill if you watch for cam wear. The 1.8T and V6 are far from perfect either... coilpacks, sludging, water pumps, etc may make the BS issue seem like nothing!
 
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vwtom

Veteran Member
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Sep 8, 2006
Location
SW Florida
TDI
2014 Passat SE
I live in the country and drive snow and ice covered roads for a good part of the winter, especially the past two. I think this is a great car for winter driving handling. I have a 2004 Escalade and prefer the Passat over it in most conditions.
 

abctdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Location
ABQ, NM, USA
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2005 Passat GLS
All I know is when I tried to spin the car loose on a snow covered parking lot, I couldn't. Driving on snow covered streets was a breeze with good tires. But then, this only happens a couple of times a year where I live.
 

deming

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Nov 9, 2003
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Illinois
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(2) 2005 TDI Passat Wagons
Buy yourself a Subaru Outback XT or an Outback with a 5 speed manual transmission and put new Nokian WR tires on the vehicle and you will be most pleased.

The Passat is as good as any other FWD car. It lacks in ground clearance, so deep snow is a NO NO. If you must drive a Passat TDI Wagon; get Nokian WR all season tires and put a Panzer plate on underneath of the engine.

Thanks
Ben
 

NHV10

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2@ 2005 Passat GLS TDI Wagon (one auto, one 5-speed manual), 2@2005 Passat TDI sedan (one GL auto and one GLS manual), 2006 Touareg V10, 2006 Jetta TDI, 2010 Jetta TDI
Nokian Hakapellita 2 are great

I have 4 studded Nokian Hakapellita 2 which are great on snow and ice. I haven't driven in deep snow but on icy and snowy roads with a couple of inches of loose or packed snow, they are fine. The Passat with these tires is infinitely better in snow that a Volvo XC70 wagon with all-season Continentals on it.
 

joem

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Feb 25, 2009
Location
Cooperstown,NY
TDI
Still waiting for a ALLTRACK TDI AWD
deming said:
Buy yourself a Subaru Outback XT or an Outback with a 5 speed manual transmission and put new Nokian WR tires on the vehicle and you will be most pleased.

The Passat is as good as any other FWD car. It lacks in ground clearance, so deep snow is a NO NO. If you must drive a Passat TDI Wagon; get Nokian WR all season tires and put a Panzer plate on underneath of the engine.

Thanks
Ben
Don't get me wrong. I love the Subaru, but the only thing holding me back from that choice is the Subaru's feel smaller inside. Our 2006 Forester is cramped in the rear seat and the rear cargo area is as per specs is 9cf smaller. My 9 y/o complains about the legroom on long trips. I took the dodge Q/Cab on the last trip and even with 20 mpg it cost me. It also lacks that German feel that I had with my 2002 Passat. I though about the new Forester with more legroom, but the price holds me back.
 

Smokerr

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Sep 3, 2005
Location
Alaska
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Passat Wagon GL,2005,Silver
In 4 winters, I have yet to have to not drive the Passat becasue of snow depth (Anchorage AK).

The limit is about 8 inches of hard pack, and maybe 12 inches of soft stuff.

Yep, the OEM Contis are not good ice tires (actauly they are pure treachery) but they aren't bad snow tires, not good, but not bad.

Oddly, the GL we got (lowest end model) had the ESP with it, which was the only option we wanted.

I ran the Conti TS810s for two winters, ok, but ice traction not as good as I wanted (highway wear was very good though). Blizzaks do wonders. We have a hill that's 2 miles long and at least 5-8% grade and it goes up it like a gazelle.

One thing you have to keep in mind with the ESP, once you get going, it can be an impediment to picking up speed (on ice). A good technique is to get going, and then turn it off.

Worst case get one of the winter compound tires you can studd.
 

deming

Veteran Member
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Location
Illinois
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(2) 2005 TDI Passat Wagons
Big Difference bewteen a Forester and an Outback. Actually no comparison. The Forester in my opinion is a pop can and a tinn bucket.
The Outback is much nicer, quieter, heavier and better built.
RENT an Outback Wagon for a few days and see if you like the car.
AWD cars like gas and an Outback 2.5i with a 5 speed manual may get a realistic 27-28 mpg. The TDI is much more fuel efficient, but it also has some pros and cons. The biggest Con right now would be the BS Shaft issues and the $$ expense to fix this issue.

I have two 05 Passat TDI Wagons and we have three Subaru Outback wagons in the family. The $7000 to fix up the Passat TDI BS shaft issues is a bit of a financial bite. The Subbie's on the other will run forever with very little maintenance issues/reliability concerns. Living in upstate NY; I know what I would do for a replacement car.
 

deming

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A really really wonderful SNOW/ICE tire would be the Green Diamond snow tires. We have Green Diamond Snow Tires (BEST in the World) and the Nokian WR tires for all season use.

These are the best tires we have EVER owned. I plan to run the Nokian WR tires on my Sequoia next year.
 

Lug_Nut

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G-D are nice in that their ice grip doesn't diminish as the tread wears (like the Blizzak), or as studs are shed (like most studded tires), but the cost is the same as a studded winter tire, and the size availability is much more limited.
If studs are allowed in your state, and you can cope with their tap-dancing sound on clear pavement, studded tires are the best. If you can't use studs, and they are available in your size, the G-D are a very good second choice, better than the Blizzak on ice, much better than the Blizzak in snow.
 

joem

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Location
Cooperstown,NY
TDI
Still waiting for a ALLTRACK TDI AWD
Hi, I wanted to ask you about the Green Diamond tires you mentioned yesterday. I have a Dodge 05 4x4 diesel I plow with. I just mounted 4 new Cooper ATR's. Getting tires do to a tear I went with an All Season. I was going to get the G-D's snows but could not find too many reviews and was skeptical on wear, using them all year .

I was going to get a set of rims for next year and dedicated snows. Would you recommend the G-D over studded snows and how well do the were?

Also, do you think a Passat 2wd with Green Diamonds will climb my hill fine or go with a AWD with these tires?

Thanks, Joe
 

volkswagendude

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Canada
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None for now...
I find that the B5.5 has a very nice weight/balance, and therefore feels quite secure in a straight line when driving high speed on slippery surfaces. It's biggest drawback is going up a slight hill in DEEP wet snow, only due in part to its low ground clearance. One reason why I will probably never install 1BE springs on this car. That said, I'll still go as far as to say that it's one of the best FWD cars I've ever driven in that regard! Maybe it's because of its B5 Audi Quattro roots, and was really meant to have the 4 motion. Just speculating and thinking out loud. BTW, my 2005 model is one of the few that doesn't have ESP :( Regardless, it's still the best front driver I've ever driven so imagine that. Note: If I decide to keep the car, (after the BS fiasco is all said and done and the book closed if ever), I was planning on installing the ESP myself. There is a link elsewhere on this forum to gather the parts.

When I first bought my Passat in DEC 2005, I immediately installed Hakkapeliitta RSI's on 15 inch rims. Their bite wasn't as good as the Hakka 4's that I had on my 93 Golf TD, but they were a very good balance of everything else. Wasn't too happy with high speed lateral stability(the marshmallow feeling) on both of those model tires, but I guess this holds true with most real winter tires.

This year I installed Gislaved Nord Frost 5 with studs, on the OEM 16 inch mags. I chose the 16's over the previous 15's, to make up for that lateral marshmallow feeling that I so hate on the highway. The Gislaved's are an easier price to swallow than the comparable Hakkapeliitta 5 model. The latter probably gaining an edge in ice lake racing, but not in your back streets and drive way. I'm very happy with the studded Gislaved on the B5.5, and they even feel more civilized and quiet on the highway than my previous NON STUDDED Hakka RSI's! One thing that needs to be said though. The stud technology on the Hakka 5's is just plain awesome! ;)

I've always said that a 4 Motion B5.5 TDI, would of been one of the best cars in the world. Even with automatic transmission dammit!
 
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BadgerFan

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Aug 14, 2005
Location
Grafton, WI
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive, White
Blizaaks on my 05 TDI GLS

I purchased a set of alloy rims (16") and Bridgestone Blizaaks via mailroder. Given I live in WI, the performance in the snow is significantly improved. I run the tire/rim set from Nov through March..
 

CalgaryTDI

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CALGARY, ALBERTA
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2005 PASSAT GLS WAGON, 2006 JETTA
Passat Wagon is awesome in snow

My b5.5 wagon 2005 has yokohama winters all around and is unbeatable in the snow. I also have the ESP which is fantastic for skids. A friend of mine has the all wheel drive Saturn and believes the Passat far exceeds his on the ice particularly.
 

Benjamin

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2000 Tdi Jetta Mine, 2008 Jeep GC CRD, 2005 Passat TDi
The Passat Sedan is basically an Audi A4 suspension system, the only difference is most A4's come with AWD, and of course the Passat didn't. In terms of snow handling I put some Michelin Primacy alpine PA3's on, but I will admit they are not the Nokian Hakka 2's that I had on my Golf a few years ago. Next winter I upgrade my winter tires and will probably do some Hakka 5's with studs. Got them priced out the other day, expensive they are, but worth every penny. Honestly you can't compare 2wd with 4wd, like apples to oranges. If you want a good 4WD vehicle look up a Toyota Hilux, basically a 4runner with a 2.4 liter diesel engine. Won't handle like a VW, but will get through the snow a little better.

Ben
 

vw4life

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New West, BC, Canada
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2014 Touareg TDI
So we know the passat was blessed with the same suspension as the audi A4 which minimizes torque steer under load.

Would this reduction of torque steer by the fancy suspension help the passat FWD be better than some other FWD vehicle in the snow?
 
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BadgerFan

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Aug 14, 2005
Location
Grafton, WI
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive, White
No issues with Passat TDI in Snow..

I run 16" Blizaaks(bridgestone) on aluminum alloys in the winter (Late Nov through March) in SE WI. I purchased wheel and tire set online and have them swapped every year. This makes driving in the snow a breeze.. The ABS helps.

badgerfan
 

volkswagendude

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Canada
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None for now...
vw4life said:
So we know the passat was blessed with the same suspension as the audi A4 which minimizes torque steer under load.

Would this reduction of torque steer by the fancy suspension help the passat FWD be better than soem other FWD vehicle in the snow?
Read post 97 by Planecrazy after my question on this link http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2466827#post2466827
 
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