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-   -   The Light truck market (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=494590)

woofie2 November 30th, 2018 15:51

The Light truck market
 
Lacking the Amarok, or a legitimate VW option...

So I have been looking at the 1500 series diesel tucks, (yes, I know they can be had bigger(2500/3500), but I drive it daily, and there are smaller(Canyon/Colorado) need the space and hauling)

Dodge Ecodiesel is king in this space, largely because they have 5 years head start on everyone else. (and it is a former MB diesel engine from VM Motori)

Ford F-150 Power stroke, new 3.0L diesel

GM/Chevy 1500 new 3.0L inline 6 Duramax

All are targeted around 30MPG highway, and the 2019's are playing the we are releasing our specs last so we can be king. (RAM is holding out)
(been riding my 2013 Silverado, waiting and wanting, had wanted a 2013 RAM diesel, but could not hold out for them to be released)

Anyone have any information or thoughts?

I am leaning hard on a Ram Ecodiesel largely because they are proven, and seem to be easily serviced locally.

my online diggings-
http://www.thedrive.com/news/24073/2...ntially-leaked
https://www.tfltruck.com/2018/10/3-0...igures-leaked/
oh- http://www.thedrive.com/news/23711/r...are-on-the-way


Jeep just threw their hat in to the light truck marketplace by saying their new Gladiator will have the 3.0L Diesel option.... :eek: (same as the RAM)
https://www.greencarcongress.com/201...gladiator.html

Tin Man December 2nd, 2018 18:51

With cars being made for people shorter than me and harder to get in and out of, a light duty diesel truck may be in my future.

TM

woofie2 December 3rd, 2018 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tin Man (Post 5462164)
With cars being made for people shorter than me and harder to get in and out of, a light duty diesel truck may be in my future.

TM

Same issue, being 6'3" a VW 2 door has enough leg and head room for me, but the 4-doors were a little cramped to get in and out of.
add in a growing family, and a car is impractical for more than daily use.
Travel with 5 people and gear for a week is a challenge in a van or car, but a truck with a bed cover, lots of space for extras.

been rocking a Silverado since 2013, 100k miles later and I am shopping again, trying to decide if I want to risk a first run GM or go to a dodge.

tikal December 6th, 2018 07:07

Are these trucks 'medium duty' diesel or there is no technical difference to light duty?

CleverUserName December 6th, 2018 07:40

The V Motori 3.0L in the EcoDiesel is called the L630. It shares nothing with the MB Bluetec 3.0L found in the sprinter vans. They are completely different engines with different lineage. Both are crap for different reasons with bad track records.

If your actually considering buying an Ecodiesel then you haven't done your homework. There is a 100+ page thread of people who had engine failures, usually bottom end and rod bearings but not all. The Ram Ecodiesel was a great idea but FCA utterly failed in their execution. FCA should have used a small Cummins V6 like in the original conceptual design.

The Canyon/Colorado 2.8 Duramax has a higher payload rating and similar GVWR/Max Tow rating as a Ram Ecodiesel. They have a 6.2' bed available and will get you 30 MPGs in a 4x4 and 32+ in a 2wd.

The Canyon/Colorado 2.8 has the same tow rating as the new GM 1500 3.0 Duramax. Just under 8,000 Lbs.

The new GM 1500 and F150 Diesel are basically the same price as a full size HD 2500 V8 diesel in similar trim.

kjclow December 6th, 2018 08:36

I purchased my 2017 Ecodiesel in February of this year. At almost 15k miles, I'm loving it. yes, there are 100+ pages discussing failures of the 3.0 liter VM diesel. The current guess is about 4% failures. Higher than the VW HPFP failures and how many pages and different threads have we had on that specific issue?

My truck is a 4x4 crew cab with the 3.92 axle for higher towing rating. We are planning on getting a travel trailer when we retire and seeing our great countries. That lowers my mileage a little. My 7 mile commute also doesn't help but my lifetime average is 22 mpg with the highest tank of almost all highway cruising (70-75 mph) was 26.5 mpg.

I have the Laramie package, so pretty well loaded. My two favorite options are the heated steering wheel and the cooled seats.

My wife's great idea was that when I traveled, with or without her, to rent a truck. Since September of last year, I drove all three brands a couple of times and various miles each. Shortest was probably two days and about 70 miles. The unloaded ride between the big three 1500 trucks is vastly different. Ram is by far the smoothest and the most comfortable seats. The Ford was next but was substantially higher priced for similar options. Chevy (GM) seats were the worst and the truck also handled like a truck. IMHO, it needed at least 100 pounds of dead weight in the bed to smooth the ride. The Canyon/Colorado suffers from many of the same issues as their big brothers. Fit and finish on the Ram rentals was also better than either the Ford or Chevy.

woofie2 December 10th, 2018 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjclow (Post 5463011)
I purchased my 2017 Ecodiesel in February of this year. At almost 15k miles, I'm loving it. yes, there are 100+ pages discussing failures of the 3.0 liter VM diesel. The current guess is about 4% failures. Higher than the VW HPFP failures and how many pages and different threads have we had on that specific issue?

Yes I have dug in on some of those, the issues appear to be "minimized" software updates, or at least delayed some, later shifting and higher revving to reduce engine lugging.
(that's what an extended warranty is to help cover right?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjclow (Post 5463011)
My wife's great idea was that when I traveled, with or without her, to rent a truck. Since September of last year, I drove all three brands a couple of times and various miles each. Shortest was probably two days and about 70 miles. The unloaded ride between the big three 1500 trucks is vastly different. Ram is by far the smoothest and the most comfortable seats. The Ford was next but was substantially higher priced for similar options. Chevy (GM) seats were the worst and the truck also handled like a truck. IMHO, it needed at least 100 pounds of dead weight in the bed to smooth the ride. The Canyon/Colorado suffers from many of the same issues as their big brothers. Fit and finish on the Ram rentals was also better than either the Ford or Chevy.

Weird, the Ram tradesman they gave me as a loaner from the Chevy dealership when my Silverado was in the shop, rode rough, but got about the same MPG as my Silverado, accelerated like a scalded dog, and had long legs. Both trucks are crewcab trucks with the mid sized v8(5.3/5.7L), my silverado has the z71 package, so suspension was upgraded from the factory, but has 90k miles on it. The Fords I have ridden in or driven were always "truck feeling" rough, and hard on dental work.
Figured I need to drive a Bighorn before shopping off the Chevy. (coworker has a 2016 bighorn said it rides much better than his F150 ever did)

Back in the day my 2003 Jetta TDI I was getting over 50 mpg on the highway, but those days are over needing to haul 5 people with 2 in kids seats.

kjclow December 11th, 2018 08:33

You'll find lots of room for cars seats in the back of any of the full sized crew cabs. I don't have to deal with that on a daily basis anymore but it was nice to be able to stand up in the back while getting my granddaughter's car seat in place. My daughter also liked that she could stand up and strap her kid in. Not having to reach through and across has benefits, especially when you get to be my age. If you're putting three in the back, I'd recommend that you stick with the bench in the front. Gives room for another adult, or maybe baby sitter, to accompany you for some trips. Most of the brands have a huge armrest that comes down when you don't need the seat space. Since it's mostly just the two of us, we opted for the split bucket seats that are both heated and cooled.

wensteph December 13th, 2018 18:46

GM hasn't released the 3.0L in the 1500 yet. Supposed to be "early next year" (2019), but I've had GM salesmen tell me 1Q, 2Q and I read online 4Q.

I also don't think Ram has released their new 3.0L either, but I don't keep up with them.

Short version is Ford has the only 1/2 ton diesel on the road now.

jackbombay December 13th, 2018 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tikal (Post 5462985)
Are these trucks 'medium duty' diesel...

No!


"Medium duty" is bigger than a pickup, a F650 for example, but smaller than a semi truck.

kjclow December 17th, 2018 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by wensteph (Post 5464963)
GM hasn't released the 3.0L in the 1500 yet. Supposed to be "early next year" (2019), but I've had GM salesmen tell me 1Q, 2Q and I read online 4Q.

I also don't think Ram has released their new 3.0L either, but I don't keep up with them.

Short version is Ford has the only 1/2 ton diesel on the road now.

2019 Ram diesel is supposed to be out sometime in Q1. There are still new 18s being sold. I don't think the GM engine is fully certified yet, so probably the earliest it will hit lots is late Q2.

IndigoBlueWagon December 17th, 2018 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by CleverUserName (Post 5462991)
The V Motori 3.0L in the EcoDiesel is called the L630. It shares nothing with the MB Bluetec 3.0L found in the sprinter vans. They are completely different engines with different lineage. Both are crap for different reasons with bad track records.

If your actually considering buying an Ecodiesel then you haven't done your homework. There is a 100+ page thread of people who had engine failures, usually bottom end and rod bearings but not all. The Ram Ecodiesel was a great idea but FCA utterly failed in their execution. FCA should have used a small Cummins V6 like in the original conceptual design.

The Canyon/Colorado 2.8 Duramax has a higher payload rating and similar GVWR/Max Tow rating as a Ram Ecodiesel. They have a 6.2' bed available and will get you 30 MPGs in a 4x4 and 32+ in a 2wd.

The Canyon/Colorado 2.8 has the same tow rating as the new GM 1500 3.0 Duramax. Just under 8,000 Lbs.

The new GM 1500 and F150 Diesel are basically the same price as a full size HD 2500 V8 diesel in similar trim.

OM642 does have its issues, but the biggest on is oil cooler seal failure, which pretty much happens to every engine. Repair parts don't cost much but labor is a big deal. Otherwise these engines are pretty robust.

The VM engine in the Ecodiesel suffered from FCA trying to get the last possible MPG out of it at launch and specifying a 5w30 oil instead of the 5w40 they've since switched to. With Rotella in the crankcase it seems to not suffer the bearing failures a few (emphasis on few) engines suffered with the lighter oil.

The Ford V6 isn't really new: It's a revision of the Lion V6 that's in Range and Land Rovers. IIRC rods and bearings were strengthened to help it withstand heavier use when towing.

Regarding light trucks in general. I know people like them but how much of a PITA they are depends on where you live. Around here, if you drive into Boston with any frequency they're hard to deal with. Too tall for lots of parking structures, too big for lots of the available on street parking. And they don't fit on some of the roads in the city.

wensteph December 18th, 2018 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon (Post 5465874)

The VM engine in the Ecodiesel suffered from FCA trying to get the last possible MPG out of it at launch and specifying a 5w30 oil instead of the 5w40 they've since switched to. With Rotella in the crankcase it seems to not suffer the bearing failures a few (emphasis on few) engines suffered with the lighter oil.

BITOG post says the oil for the new GM 3.0L is 0w-20. That one might be too much a leap of faith on GM engineering.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...pics/4799098/1

IndigoBlueWagon December 18th, 2018 17:06

A number of manufacturers are using 0w20 for newer diesels. I think the VW spec is 508.00. Of course we won't see it in any VW diesels in this market. Reminds me of the 0w30 they used for a while in the PDs and Touareg. That didn't go so well.

CleverUserName December 18th, 2018 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon (Post 5466270)
A number of manufacturers are using 0w20 for newer diesels. I think the VW spec is 508.00. Of course we won't see it in any VW diesels in this market. Reminds me of the 0w30 they used for a while in the PDs and Touareg. That didn't go so well.

I read that 0w20 increased fuel economy 4% vs. a 15w40.

Whats the difference in 0w20 vs. a 10w30/5w30 ? 2% ?

Id rather use the 10w30 as the slight increase in fuel economy may not provide optimum lubrication in all situations, especially extreme heat or high load.


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