a6 2.5 tdi ael hard tuning!

Q

quattroelstad

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Location
norway
TDI
audi a6 c4 2.5 tdi-S quattro
ok, so here is the deal. i havent seen a thread with exactly this set up, so ill try to make my own, to get some tips and ideas from you guys.. so dont hate me for not searching enough:p

I have a 1996 audi a6 2.5 tdi quattro i want to get some extra power of.
engine code is ael, standard 140 hp 290 nm, now with a little chip, but i want more..:D
plans so far is
-K24 7000 turbo
-Bigger FMIC
-3" exhaust from dp.
-Free flow air filter.
-Fratelli bosio 520 race nozzles. 0.260 .
and a clutch/flywheel upgrade from doubblemass to single mass who can handle the power.

With this setup, how much HP/NM is it possible to get with proper tuning on dyno?
If i get a exhaust manifold with better flow, and maybe a tuning camshaft, i will get rid of the heat faster, and reach even more power?

is 240-50 hp 500 nm very hard to reach? and how much power do the engine handle before i have to get rods, better piston, etc..?

Thanks ! Lasse :)
 
M

mk1-83

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Location
Holland
TDI
LUPO 1.9 tdi 300+ hp
swap turbo to a gtb2260vk
feulpumphead to a 12mm ( will hard to find, some cutom made )
get a 3 bar map sensor to run more boost)
find a good chip tuner
 
shadowmaker

shadowmaker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Finland
TDI
2.5TDI
Here's my old posting:


Recept:

-Volvo V70 -00 2.5TDI (AEL)
-mild performance cam
-HE221W turbo (wastegate)
-3" DP + "free flow" pipe
-big IC + pipes
-Bosio R520 II (7-hole)
-Turbotec live program with 1,8bar boost (<2bar EMP)
-modified clutch with SMF + SRE components

Got about 240bhp, 500Nm.

Changing those Bosio nozzles to DSS Ultime2 was the only mod and it got us to this:


Peak figures are now 281bhp, 594Nm. Gain was through the whole rev area, so maybe those Bosio RACE2 nozzles are bad indeed.

With DSS Ultime2 there's less smoke and I bet some 10-15hp more could be achieved with remapping, while smoke would raise the same level it was with RACE2.

With minor mods it should go over 300bhp...


Currently boost is 1,8bar, EMP 2,0bar.

Red line is bhp, green is wheel power in kilowatts (peak 181kW, 246hp).

Current performance:
80-120kmh 2,8s (3rd gear)
100-160kmh 7,0s (4th gear)
100-200kmh 14,0s (4th and 5th gear)

Consumption is about 5,5L/100km containing 30% town, 70% highway.

Times were taken from a video of the dash and those are an average of five takes each.

I was only consulting the build as I have some previous experience of diesels and 2.5TDI in particular.


EDIT. Had to use original DMF because of three broken gearbox, so torque is now restricted to 500Nm. We raised the max power to 294bhp and gave it some 300rpm more revs.

EDIT2: Torque isn't the reason for gearbox failure. It's the vibrations from 5 cyl engine that kills GB. (There is an older Volvo 2.5TDI GB with SMF clutch as original and this GB seems to be able to handle vibrations as it is.)

I think this car has now something like 80-90tkm on it with this setup. No problems so far...
 
A

arekr

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Location
Poland
TDI
A6 C4 2.5 TDI
I have AEL 260hp/ 480nm
GT2260v setup

low EGT max 850"C
and zero smoke:)
 
Q

quattroelstad

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Location
norway
TDI
audi a6 c4 2.5 tdi-S quattro
i dont know if i manage to build a vnt out of this non vnt..
is it that hard?
Do i need a new MAP sensor btw? how much bar can i run on with the standard one?
 
R

Razur

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Location
Finland
TDI
A6 2.5 AEL Q
There has been two types of map sensors, 2 bar map and 2,5 bar map. Those 2 bar maps has mostly been on early AAT engines, so most likely you have 2,5 bar map. So you can use 1,5 bar boost pressure, without going to limp mode.

You can create mechanical vnt or swap ecu to better one, so you can easily use vnt after that. Ecu swap still ain't walk in a park.
 
Q

quattroelstad

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Location
norway
TDI
audi a6 c4 2.5 tdi-S quattro
ok. where do i find the map sensor on this car? i know its not in the ecu where it is in S4 etc..
 
R

Razur

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Location
Finland
TDI
A6 2.5 AEL Q
Q

quattroelstad

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Location
norway
TDI
audi a6 c4 2.5 tdi-S quattro
Dont think i need bigger pump.
Thanks! I had read all except one of those threads.. Much useful information!
But at what power level you think it is at it place to start upgrading rods, piston etc?
And does anyone have a idea where i can get SMF from and what cluth to use?
 
R

Razur

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Location
Finland
TDI
A6 2.5 AEL Q
Rods and pistons should be ok under 300 horses, even more. Shadowmaker had over 350 with stock bottom parts. Only thing I would change for under 300, would be those main bolts that hold crank and crank bearings at place. Those are the weak part in these engines. I have had broken bolts twice now, next time there will be stronger ones. Stock bolts are 10.9 and you should use 12.x
 
K

K7ERG

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2011
Location
Perth scotland
TDI
A5 3.0tdi quattro
I have the k24 7000 on my AEL. Working fine.180hp 370nm @0.9bar.

Just need more boost and the.bigger nozzles in. Hopefully in a few weeks and will get it.back on the.rolling road to check over.
 
Q

quattroelstad

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Location
norway
TDI
audi a6 c4 2.5 tdi-S quattro
K7ERG said:
I have the k24 7000 on my AEL. Working fine.180hp 370nm @0.9bar.

Just need more boost and the.bigger nozzles in. Hopefully in a few weeks and will get it.back on the.rolling road to check over.
Click to expand...
Nice:) how does it spool up compared to the original k14?

And anyone, can i use SMF from audi 100 2.3 quattro??
 
Q

quattroelstad

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Location
norway
TDI
audi a6 c4 2.5 tdi-S quattro
I might do that then, i just asked bcause i know of a wrecked 100 2.3 :)
But anyone have a suggestion on what clutch to use?
 
S

saab9turbo

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2011
Location
norway
TDI
golf mk3 tdi syncro 3door;)
vektgrensa til posten er vel 30kg, så de skal gå. jeg var inne på sachs å sjekka, å clutch fra s4 å de skal jo passe, var de jeg hadde tenkt til å bruke..
 
Q

quattroelstad

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Location
norway
TDI
audi a6 c4 2.5 tdi-S quattro
okay. i'll come back to that.
how far from the turbo exhaust outlet should i mount the EGT sensor?
 
Q

quattroelstad

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Location
norway
TDI
audi a6 c4 2.5 tdi-S quattro
not nice...
maybe your engine was in bad shape from start?

By the way, anyone got a slightest clue of how it will be to drive after getting the bigger turbo, nozzles and intercooler mounted, before dyno mapp? is it going to be so bad that i have to have the car on a trailer and transport it to the mapping location, or will it be driveable? the car has a chip mounted, so it it boosting a bit more than normal.
 
H

HF1600ie

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Location
Portugal
TDI
AUDI A6 2.5 TDi Avant AAT 1995
Hi C4 owners !!

I have an Audi A6 C4 R5 2.5 TDi AAT engined.

So far, only mod was a chip-tune I made on my own. Turbo is K14 stock.
I can tell from this experience that the car is very good, probably around 150hp with barely no smoke. Smooth spool-up and very progressive up to 4500rpm. I can push the tuning a lot harder... because there´s still a great margin for improvement here.
By looking at the fuel and turbo maps, it is clear that "hardware-only" mods to fuel are not the best option, because there are limitations in the stock program that will limit the new hardware potential. Specially in fuel delivery.
A lot more can be made with chip-tuning.
MSA-11 tuning is very old-school, but still, great improvements can be made.

I have an issue though : My car always blows a slight haze of smoke at idle. Probably unburnt fuel (IP timing is correct by vag-com). When I stay long-time at idle and then I take off, the smoke becomes more apparent, sometime very visible.
Probably worn nozzles ? I still have the stock 0.205 nozzles. 234.000km.
If I do a long trip I see no smoke at all. But idling for a long time... iech.... :(
Oil consumption is about 1 liter@5000/6000km
No coolant changes.
Made a compression test : All cylinder between 29/30 bar.

Any ideas ?
 
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