Stalling with a manual transmission

[bwhite757]

Ok, I really hate to admit this, and just thought it would take a couple days to get the hang of the new car, but....

I've got 800 miles on my car now, and I've literally stalled it from a dead stop more times than I have EVER stalled any of my previous 6 manual transmission cars combined. It is driving me nuts. I know I got spoiled with my last car (HHR), I couldn't stall that car unless I kept my foot on the brake and dumped the clutch, but I've driven finicky clutches before, mainly my father's '10 Camaro SS. That car took some getting used to, but I never stalled it out that I can remember.

I have no problem getting through the gears once I get started, but I have to be super conscious when starting off. Am I the only one in this boat? I know it's not my car, the one I test drove at the dealership was the same way.

Any advice?

 

[canux]

You're not alone. The rumor is that these cars just cut the engine below a certain RPM rather than lug to a stall. That is consistent with what I have noticed with mine. And yes, I've driven a clutch for almost 30 years and yet I will occasionally still stall my 2010 Golf.

I don't know about your car, but you may want to check to see if there is an ECU flash. There was one for mine that made it a bit more tolerant to stalling.

Finally, the clutch engages early. Really early. Find a nice flat spot and practice engaging the clutch without touching the accelerator. You can do this pretty easy with the TDI without riding the clutch thanks to the torque. Once you find the sweet spot you're good to go. When I screw up now it is usually because I panic and try to do something too quickly.

Oh, and I'll take some flack for this, but when you're out there practicing, I suggest you take your shoes off and just get the feel of it in your socks. You will get a much better sense of where the clutch is IMHO. I like hiking boots myself, but that's not the right gear for learning a new clutch.

 

[JSWTDI09]

Whether they admit it or not, most 09+ TDI owners with manual transmissions have stalled it more than once (I stalled mine before I even got out of the dealer's lot). The combination of a drive-by-wire accelerator and a hydraulic clutch does take some getting used to. This plus the fact that the ECU refuses to allow you to lug the engine make stalling easy to do. If rpms ever drop below about 750, the ECU just shuts off the engine. There is no way to "catch" it and prevent stalling.

All said, there is still a cure (or 2) for the stalling problem. First (and best) cure is practice. You need to retrain the timing in your feet. There is a barely perceptible delay between pressing on the accelerator pedal and the engine reving. You will learn to compensate - it does get better. I have a little over 58,000 miles and I haven't stalled it in years.

The other thing that actually seems to help a little is a tune. A good tune will usually increase torque and sharpen throttle response, both of which help to prevent stalling.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[TheFonz]

I only stalled my 2012 once. It happened to be on the freeway in heavy traffic and bad weather. I was able to just start the car again while it was rolling. I happened to press the clutch down fast as I felt a stall coming, but was not able to catch it. From the last 2 posts, I now know why I wasn't able to catch it.

I know my wife was complaining about stalling my car frequently whenever she took it because her car's clutch point feels a bit different.

 

[PressEnter[]]

Interesting. I don't actually have my Jetta yet (picking it up Monday!) but I did stall the one I test drove once pulling away from a stop. I figured it was just part of getting used to a different car, but it'll be interesting to see how it goes in everyday life, especially on hills (though it does have a hill-hold clutch, right?) Overall the test drive was very smooth. I also tested Chevy Cruze and Mazda3 6-speeds. I didn't stall either of them, but I didn't think either of them were as pleasant to drive. The Cruze in particular was a little jerky, and hard to shift smoothly.

 

[Scoutx]

One thing you might try which will help, particularly on flat ground, release the brakes a bit early and let the "hill hold" die so that you're not fighting the brakes right off. If you need a little hold just to keep from rolling then use the E-Brake (keep button pushed in with your thumb). For me, I stall it most often on hills when I'm trying for a gentle start. Don't be afraid to goose it a little until you're use to it, particularly on an uphill. The difference between idle and a stall isn't that much, and if you don't have your throttle/clutch sync right, it's really easy to drop the RPMs below the "Look at me, I'm an idiot that just stalled his car when the light turned green" point.

It becomes, IMO, really a matter of feel, and you're most likely to screw it up and stall with a gentle start that with a more....aggressive one.

So if you keep stalling out....let your inner driver out a bit.

 

[T100TDI]

They really aren't the most confidence inspiring cars to drive. I've stalled mine multiple times. Now it's few and far between. But I was stalling it several times a week in the first couple of weeks I had the car. I'm waiting for the motorcycle weather to return so I can feel like a pro with a clutch again. Just keep at it and you will get there. But they're a real son of a gun until you get used to the minimal wiggle room between stalling and going.

 

[Ford_6L_E350]

I stalled mine several times early on - and I've driven sticks my whole life. It was a combination of the engine shutting off when the rpms come down and a new clutch. After a couple thousand miles the clutch has more slipabilty. It was really grabby when new.

Mike

 

[CNDTDI]

i don't know why but I only stalled it once in the year I've owned my car maybe i ride the clutch and don't realize it, but never had a problem with it hill hold disappear as you touch the go pedal, I touch the throttle before I start removing the clutch at around 1000 rpm.

 

[Ol'Rattler]

Most likely, it's the craptastic Dual Mass Flywheel that they put in these cars.

On my 2006, I would stall it many a week and finally, at 50k miles, I got so thoroughly fed up with the horrible engagement and changed the clutch to a Single mass flywheel.

I went from stalling many times a week to stalling maybe once or twice a year. If I'd have known how much better a SMF was, the DMF would have been replaced and in the trash before the car had 100 (One Hundred) miles on it.

I know, people talk about the 800 RPM fuel cut-off nonsense, on the 06 they talked the same nonsense but the bottom line really is the horrible clutch that comes from the factory, although some folks do seem to get DMF's that work O.K.

There are a bunch of older threads on this. Search for DMF or SMF..............

 

[JSWTDI09]

Most likely, it's the craptastic Dual Mass Flywheel that they put in these cars.

This could also be part of the problem. However, I do not think that a SMF is available for the CR (2009+) TDIs. All the ones I've seen are for VE or PD engines. Unless (until) someone sells a good SMF for our cars, your solution won't work for the OP.

Practice and the clutch "wearing-in" will solve the stalling problem. It just takes time and patience.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[Locnar]

Same here. First few weeks were frustrating, but I just thought it was because I was going from an automatic hybrid to a manual TDI...big difference. I only had manuals prior to the hybrid though, so it was a bit of a hit to the ego.

As previously stated, you'll find your sweet spot eventually, just keep at it.

Side note - I stalled in traffic last week right during afternoon rush getting out of the city. Embarrassing to say the least!

 

[chaoscreature]

Whew, I thought I was the only one who stalled mine!
I have only done it twice since I bought the car, but both times were at intersections and it definitely shot my ego down a notch
Heel and toe in these cars is interesting too because the engine is so quiet and the lag makes timing very difficult. The pedal spacing is a bit awkward as well, unless I am all-in on the brakes it's difficult to reach the throttle pedal.

 

[JSWTDI09]

Whew, I thought I was the only one who stalled mine!
I have only done it twice since I bought the car, but both times were at intersections and it definitely shot my ego down a notch
Heel and toe in these cars is interesting too because the engine is so quiet and the lag makes timing very difficult. The pedal spacing is a bit awkward as well, unless I am all-in on the brakes it's difficult to reach the throttle pedal.

I have big feet, so the pedal position is not a problem for me to do heel-and-toe. However, the design of our cars makes heel-and-toe driving almost impossible to do right. When you touch the brake pedal, it basically disables the accelerator pedal. You cannot apply "gas" and brake at the same time. This has caused some guys who actually race these cars to disable the sense wire on the brake pedal switch. This brake/accelerator interlock has been normal on many cars since the Audi 90 "unintended acceleration" issue many years ago. It might be good for safety, but it is bad for heel-toe driving.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[mu3098]

I had the same problem with stalling because of the Hill Hold feature. The Hill Hold will keep the brakes on for a fixed amount of time after you release the brakes or until the engine RPM exceeds a certain level. It can be adjusted (through Adaptation) or disabled (by recoding) with VCDS in the ABS module. On the normal setting it seems to release the brakes at around 1200 RPM. I changed mine to early release which releases the brakes about 900 RPM which works good for me.

 

[bwhite757]

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one. Thanks for all the input guys. I had a tech call I had to go to today about 90 miles away, but this was the first time I drove the car in tennis shoes. I had much better feel than with my dress shoes I'm normally wearing for work. I was much more confident driving it this way, but that's against dress code and it's too much of a pain to change shoes to drive, so I'm just going to have to get used to it. I was able to feel out the sweet spot better though, so I'll go from there.

I do like the hill assist though. Makes this finicky clutch a little less stressful with a hill.

Don't get me wrong, I love this car. A vast improvement over my HHR, I'm on pace to save about $100-125 in fuel for the month, and my wife's on pace to save about $75-90 with her commutes. We both travel for our jobs and get vehicle allowance checks, which with the gas savings now should almost cover our payments. So the way I see it these cars are making us money. I just hope they hold up better than our last vehicles that we just traded.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[1319TDI]

Not alone. I was surprised during the first few weeks that I stalled a couple times. I have also driven manual cars since I started driving, including cars I thought to be pretty tough on the stick. I even posted a thread about damage to the new engine/tranny on account of stalling within the first few miles. The ECU issue makes sense because I know I didn't let the RPM's fall that low...

 

[bwhite757]

Well an update....

I haven't stalled the car in the 4 weeks since I made the OP, and the last couple of weeks the clutch seems to be a lot more forgiving. I'm no longer scared to make a quick left turn in front of oncoming traffic (which in some of the big cities I drive in that's mandatory in rush hour!) No longer staring at the Tach when I take off, or worried if I have the music up too loud so I can't hear the engine. I can just drive and not worry about it.

Now my wife on the other hand, still hasn't been able to get the car out of the driveway (somewhat steep incline)... lol, and she also could drive my old HHR-manual around just fine (hell she has a CDL and can drive tractor trailers without issues). Going to be interesting when I take her car for the day when service is due (we live 50 miles away from nearest VW dealer, but I'm normally working in a city with a dealership in it), so don't know what she's going to do when she has to drive my car.

 

[Hogndos]

I have big feet, so the pedal position is not a problem for me to do heel-and-toe. However, the design of our cars makes heel-and-toe driving almost impossible to do right. When you touch the brake pedal, it basically disables the accelerator pedal. You cannot apply "gas" and brake at the same time. This has caused some guys who actually race these cars to disable the sense wire on the brake pedal switch. This brake/accelerator interlock has been normal on many cars since the Audi 90 "unintended acceleration" issue many years ago. It might be good for safety, but it is bad for heel-toe driving.

Have Fun!

Don

Interesting that you are unable to heal/toe in the wagon...I do in my Jetta sedan all the time...it's a bit more challenging for rpm matching than my Z4 as the revs climb a bit slower but I have never noticed the fuel delivery being interrupted due to brake application...what HAS happened to me due my larger boat ..er, ah boot size, is mashing the loud pedal to redline while hard on the brakes in a emergency stop...very disconcerting

 

[jmarshall]

I have the same problem, though most of my stalls are due to the hill hold.

 

[PressEnter[]]

It took some time, but after a thousand miles, I'm used to the clutch. I just have to remember not to shift into second too soon. In my old car, I'd often get it moving and shift into second without touching the gas at all. Not anymore!

 

[hawleyrw]

Definitely not alone. Also been driving stick for many years, I stall the Jetta more than any other car I've had. I had a 2000 Golf tdi prior to this, and feels TOTALLY different, rather than lug will stall.

Just about getting used to it. Do it about weekly, it seems.

Cheers!

 

[mmn]

Glad I found this thread - the info about the ECU shutting down the engine below 750 RPM makes sense (I've stalled a couple times going very slowly in my apartment complex). Coming from a 1992 Integra which pretty much let me coast in second gear at under 500rpms, this is taking a little time to get used to.

 

[Mark]

I had the same problem with stalling because of the Hill Hold feature. The Hill Hold will keep the brakes on for a fixed amount of time after you release the brakes or until the engine RPM exceeds a certain level. It can be adjusted (through Adaptation) or disabled (by recoding) with VCDS in the ABS module. On the normal setting it seems to release the brakes at around 1200 RPM. I changed mine to early release which releases the brakes about 900 RPM which works good for me.

I've heard this before, and I've repeatedly played around with the hill hold trying to replicate this. On my car the instant I even touch the accelerator pedal, the brakes release.

Maybe it's a difference in programming.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Wow, ok, I am not alone. I have stalled my JSW on my hill more times than I stalled my first car when I was learning to drive!

Love the mileage, but first gear is a PITA.

 

[SkeeterMark]

I've heard this before, and I've repeatedly played around with the hill hold trying to replicate this. On my car the instant I even touch the accelerator pedal, the brakes release.

Maybe it's a difference in programming.

Same here. Mine NEVER keeps brake pressure applied once you touch the accelerator pedal, so is never a hindrance or annoyance as long as I press the accelerator, even slightly.

On another note, these cars (at least my '13) do not require pushing the accelerator to get started from a dead stop on flat ground - there is enough torque at idle to engage without killing the engine if you slowly and smoothly let out the clutch. This might be a good way for people new to these cars to get to know where the clutch pedal engages and disengages and get a little smoother at it for when they want to jump on it later.

 

[IndyVW]

Same as others have said....ive owned many cars with manuals and ive never had this issue. I just killed it again today after a week of ownership on the way home from work. I find myself killing it usually only when the AC is on. The loss of power due to the compressor running combined with a clutch that has so little feel or feedback seems to be my issue. Guess I will get used to it over time.

 

[03_01_TDI]

Not sure which year it started but my '13 has hill assist. If I don't time the brake release correctly the hill assist will still hold the car and cause it to lug or stall, occasionally.

 

[bwhite757]

My '13's hill assist releases the brakes immediately after I touch the accelerator, so I don't have any issues with stalling it with hills. I just pull out the clutch enough to hold the hill then give it some gas and away I go. I guess I'm one of the few that love the hill assist, especially with the A-holes around here that love to get right on your bumper at a light, and everywhere is a hill around the area I drive my car the most.

 

[Locnar]

My '13's hill assist releases the brakes immediately after I touch the accelerator, so I don't have any issues with stalling it with hills. I just pull out the clutch enough to hold the hill then give it some gas and away I go. I guess I'm one of the few that love the hill assist, especially with the A-holes around here that love to get right on your bumper at a light, and everywhere is a hill around the area I drive my car the most.

I'm with you. It takes some getting used to, but hill assist is a nice feature...an unexpected one as well. No one told me about and my test drive was on prey flat! I haven't stalled in quite a while now, but even when I was I don't think it was due to the hill assist.