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-   -   2001 Beetle injection pump seems to have jumped time. (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=506276)

Tdijarhead March 24th, 2020 17:10

2001 Beetle injection pump seems to have jumped time.
 
2001 Beetle 201k mikes 5 spd.
My daughter called today, her car had quit on the side of the road. Fortunately it was a secondary road so very little traffic. She was coming around a curve and heard a metal noise and the car shut off. It would start but has a “knock” that is far from normal.

I had it towed home and into my garage. I have inspected the belt, no missing teeth, I had that happen once. I set the engine at TDC. The crank is locked, I have a metalnerd long reach cam lock so I have not removed the valve cover at this point.

The long reach cam lock won’t quite fit into the cam slot, I’m talking maybe the thickness of a piece of paper or two. I can get it to fit if I jiggle it and loosen the two cam lock bolts a bit. So I think the cam and crank are close, real close just not exact.

The tensioner is tight the tang still in the hole, if anything the stub is a bit past the slot but that may be because the engine has not fully cooled yet.

After getting the crank and cam at TDC I went to put the tool in the ip hole and it’s nowhere to be found. I can find what I assume is the infamous “sucker hole” at approximately the 6 o’clock position. So I think the ip is several teeth off.

Will the ip being out of time cause a knocking noise? I was sure when I first backed it into the garage that the belt would be missing several teeth and severely out of time. The current belt was done in March of 2017, by me, it has almost exactly 60k miles on a 100k mile belt kit from a known quality club supporting vendor.

Any theory’s on how the ip could jump time? I’ve done some searching and previously the thought seems to have been that the tensioner was at fault either installed wrong or a prothe part.

I checked the 3 bolts holding the ip pulley and they are tight and show no signs of movement being roughly centered in the oval holes.

I have not loosened the tensioner yet or spun the pulleys or water pump, they look ok but as we all know looks can be deceiving.

My daughter was adamant that she didn’t do anything stupid or unusual when this all occurred. How could an ip jump time? Do I have other problems that led to this happening or that will result because of it?

One further bit of information, I ran vcds and it has a 16687 code, that’s the only code other than a door and a couple of heated mirror codes. ( 16687 cylinder 3 misfire detected.)

csstevej March 24th, 2020 17:20

How is the torque on the main pulley bolt on the injection pump?

KLXD March 24th, 2020 17:20

Could be something got into the belt?

Maybe the pump just gave up and seized?

In my younger days on a 1.6 I dropped a screw while doing the timing belt. Didn't find it but when I started the engine it sounded as you describe. Retimed the pump and it was ok. I don't remember if the cam went out also. I assume the screw caused the pump to jump.

Tdijarhead March 24th, 2020 17:31

The torque on the main pulley is good.

I did find a piece or two of plastic laying in the bottom under the crank pulley. At first I thought it was teeth from the belt but that was not the case. I think it’s a piece of the back timing belt cover. She has a hole in that cover that I put a piece of metal over so crud wouldn’t get in. That was shortly after she got the car I found the hole in the cover when I did the timing belt.

jmodge March 25th, 2020 05:46

Is the tensioner locating tab still in the back cover hole with the metal grommet intact?

Growler March 25th, 2020 05:47

if your IP pin hole is at the ~6 o clock position you need to rotate the crank one more full revolution and THEN lock the crank and cam. the IP pin should go into the IP at the 12:30-1 o clock position and line up with the machined square boss directly behind the IP Pulley. the 12o clock position is about where the "sucker" hole is

Tdijarhead March 25th, 2020 09:34

Thanks Growler, Looks like I had one of those duh moments, I’m glad I didn’t pull things apart last night but knocked off a little early just to see what you guys might have to offer. I’m glad I did now, I’ll let you guys know if the hole lines up.

The tensioner tab is still in the hole, and in good shape so that seems to be ok.

oilhammer March 25th, 2020 09:57

Does it crank normally? Does the ECU show cranking RPM in the scan tool data?

Tdijarhead March 25th, 2020 11:31

Ok guys after Growlers “wake up” post I went down and reset the timing rotating the engine one turn....and the engine is in time, almost perfectly. After determining that, I checked the turbo, again we’re good.

When I turn the engine over I can hear metal on metal. Laying underneath the car and turning it I can hear that sound coming from the bell housing. I put a brand new LUK repset complete clutch in her car on thanksgiving day. I believe something has come loose (bolt?) and locked up the flywheel stalling the car. When it was restarted it made a nasty knocking noise. Fortunately it wasn’t the valves and pistons, unfortunately I’m going to have to pull the transmission......again.

I have nothing to do anyway. Wuflu unemployment.

Tdijarhead March 25th, 2020 17:57

Well the ip didnít jump time and the turbo is in good shape also.

I pulled the transmission and this is what I found.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/med...B622F394D.jpeg

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/med...FDB99F953.jpeg

You can see one of those clips has broken off.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/med...F24E7BAF7.jpeg

Here is most of it lodged in the flywheel.

That little piece broke off and apparently lodged in the clutch in such a way that it stalled her car. Then upon restart it made a loud knocking noise and when turning the engine by hand you could hear metal on metal scraping.

Keep in mind this is a brand new LUK rep set, that I installed thanksgiving day. Iíd have to look to be exact but she has about 5k miles on this set up.

Full disclosure, this came from amazon. When I replaced her clutch for her she wanted to go the least expensive route. We decided a DMF would be less than a smf conversion and she found this on amazon for less than the trusted vendor (s) that I would normally use. I saw that it had the same part numbers and so thought it would be fine.

So this car has went from the point at which I first heard it run and I thought for sure the belt had slipped and valve piston contact had been made, to thinking the ip had slipped to a bad/faulty clutch.

csstevej March 25th, 2020 18:31

That truly sucks but glad you were able to find it.

KLXD March 25th, 2020 20:14

So that cam holding tool has enough flex that it allowed the slot being offset to the low side instead of the high side???

Shouldn't matter where you bought it if it was the same brand unless it was actually a counterfeit.

Tell her no more 6k launches.

oilhammer March 26th, 2020 03:53

Wow, that sucks. At least you found the culprit and it seems to have done no major harm.

That is the problem you have with certain places, no warranty (I assume).

Tdijarhead March 26th, 2020 04:16

I’m going to contact the vendor, I don’t have any idea why this clutch would break off like that. They come fully assembled and are actually quite easy to install.

While I know she drives that thing at 80mph I’m not sure she knows how to do a 6k launch.

The only thing I can think of is faulty material/manufacturing. If you note from the one pic LUK is stamped/cast into the metal so I don’t believe it’s counterfeit. After this experience I won’t be installing any more DMF clutches, smooth as they are I don’t like pulling a transmission twice because of material failure.

oilhammer March 26th, 2020 06:23

I have installed quite a few of those Luk kits, have one in one of my ALHs right now, I've never had an issue. They've all come from Worldpac, though.


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