TDIClub Forums

TDIClub Forums (http://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php)
-   Fuels & Lubricants (http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   Who makes Group 4 507 Spec oils, 0W-30 or 5w-30 oil? (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=505454)

AndrewProbasco February 13th, 2020 09:25

Who makes Group 4 507 Spec oils, 0W-30 or 5w-30 oil?
 
Help me help my 2012 TDI live forever! Which oils meet the 507 spec and use a group 4 base stock?

This is surprisingly difficult to find out. A lot of them are 505. I just want a true European diesel synthetic in spec.

Bias towards MB1 and AMSOIL, but I don't believe they offer 507 spec.

Thanks!,
Andrew

Scooby24 February 13th, 2020 09:30

Not sure if mobil 1's ESP is a group 4 or not but their ESP x1 0w30 or ESP 5w30 is a 507 spec oil.

I'm personally running the ESP x1 0w30.

oilhammer February 13th, 2020 09:31

Any 507.00 compliant 5w30 will be perfectly fine. You'll have a dozen other things fail before the engine's internally lubricated parts will anyway. Don't over think it.

I just did a 430k mile service on one. The Pentosin 5w30 SP3 oil seems to be working just fine in it.

turbobrick240 February 13th, 2020 10:52

Yeah, this thread on BITOG explains why a straight group iv 507 oil is unnecessary, undesirable, and unavailable.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...(group_IV_or_V

casioqv February 13th, 2020 11:10

I looked into this too, and the only oil I could find that was for sure an ester based group IV was the RedLine Euro-Series 5w30, but it's not VW approved. Personally I am planning to use M1 ESP until the warranty is up, and then switch to RedLine.

Dannyboy February 14th, 2020 04:03

Like the guys said dont worry about the group IV rating, your going to see negligible difference between the group III plus and IV VW 507 oils. I use pennzoil Euro LX 0W30 as I'm up north as it's only $32 cdn when in sale for 5 liters. Dont overthink oil, that's why VW certified them for you.

AndrewProbasco February 18th, 2020 11:51

Thanks all. I'm going to go with MB1 ESP.

casioqv February 18th, 2020 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dannyboy (Post 5571992)
Dont overthink oil, that's why VW certified them for you.


I don't think VW cares about people trying to get a really long lifespan from an old car, or they wouldn't have so many 'lifetime' fluids. Having a motor with a timing chain, I remember the MB diesel guys showing huge differences in timing chain elongation rate depending on different oil base stocks.

Dannyboy February 19th, 2020 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by casioqv (Post 5572983)
I don't think VW cares about people trying to get a really long lifespan from an old car, or they wouldn't have so many 'lifetime' fluids. Having a motor with a timing chain, I remember the MB diesel guys showing huge differences in timing chain elongation rate depending on different oil base stocks.

Name 1 lifetime fluid in a mk6 other than manual transmission fluid.

Alot of people who run 5w30 or 0w30 myself included have absolutely no issues with the VW507. It was designed for this engine, most 507 oils are borderline 0w40 oils anyway. Also all 2.0 tdis use timing belts.

To OP PP euro Lx 0w30 is made in Germany right on the label, not a group IV but excellent oil , cheap when on sale and readily available. Don't get dragged into thinking group IV oils are going to double the life of your engine, they wont. Their effects are negligible and cost will outweigh the benefits long term

oilhammer February 19th, 2020 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dannyboy (Post 5573131)
Name 1 lifetime fluid in a mk6 other than manual transmission fluid.

"Mk6" what?

Jetta? Civic?

All G12+ equipped VAG products have "lifetime" coolant, if that is the answer you were looking for. We just normally change it when we need to open the cooling system for something, but it has no specified change interval. None of them can go "indefinitely" without something related to the cooling system needing attention. I have seen a couple of the later 2.5L 5 cyl go ~200k miles on their original water pumps, though.

casioqv February 19th, 2020 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dannyboy (Post 5573131)
Don't get dragged into thinking group IV oils are going to double the life of your engine, they wont.

Why not? Since engines timing chains show about half the elongation rate, and wear metals accumulate in the oil at about half the rate, doubling the engine life seems like a reasonable expectation.

I am basing my opinion mostly on timing chain elongation rate data collected by the late diesel guru Marshall Booth "Der Diesel Doktor". Basically, he owned a sizable collection of 80s MB Diesels and measured the elongation rates between oil changes with Mobil Delvac 1/TDT vs non-synthetic oils. However that data is 20+ years old now, and oils like VW 507 spec didn't exist yet.

I think the importance of chain stretch is general, and doesn't apply just to engines with chains. It's a measure of metallic wear that is precisely quantifiable and can be tracked over time while the engine remains in service, and is a real world test vs things like a 4 ball wear test.


Edit: apparently some VWs can digitally report stretch via VCDS, which could be a valuable way of evaluating these modern oils. I don't know if any diesels can report this, I've only seen this on the VR6: https://www.clubtouareg.com/threads/...h-vcds.185889/

IndigoBlueWagon February 19th, 2020 12:03

Mobil has Two 1 ESPs. One is a 0w30, the other a 5w30. The 5w30 has a VW 507.00 spec. There are lots of other oils that do, too: Rowe, Liqui-Moly, Total, Pentosin, to name a few. And as an aside, no Amsoil lubricant has any VW certifications.

And I agree with oilhammer on lifetime coolant. My wagon is going on 18 years and 400K+ miles. Cooling system has never been drained. Haven't had any hoses fail, either. I'd probably add power steering fluid to the lifetime list, as well.

Kevinski4 February 19th, 2020 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon (Post 5573239)
<snip>


And I agree with oilhammer on lifetime coolant. My wagon is going on 18 years and 400K+ miles. Cooling system has never been drained. Haven't had any hoses fail, either. I'd probably add power steering fluid to the lifetime list, as well.


Hmm. Unless you are running the original waterpump, which is normally replaced at each timing belt interval, your cooling system has been drained 4 times. That's assuming you are still running the original short block anyway, could be more than 4 times.

IndigoBlueWagon February 19th, 2020 13:54

How much coolant do you lose in a timing belt change? I believe it's less than half the system's capacity.

But you're right: it has been drained. I'm on my second (well, technically third) long block. Didn't remember that.

Scooby24 February 19th, 2020 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon (Post 5573239)
Mobil has Two 1 ESPs. One is a 0w30, the other a 5w30. The 5w30 has a VW 507.00 spec. There are lots of other oils that do, too: Rowe, Liqui-Moly, Total, Pentosin, to name a few. And as an aside, no Amsoil lubricant has any VW certifications.

And I agree with oilhammer on lifetime coolant. My wagon is going on 18 years and 400K+ miles. Cooling system has never been drained. Haven't had any hoses fail, either. I'd probably add power steering fluid to the lifetime list, as well.

Per Mobil 1, their 0w30 has the 507 Spec as well.

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-esp

Quote:

Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 has the following builder approvals:

MB-Approval 229.31
MB-Approval 229.51
MB-Approval 229.52
PORSCHE C30
VW 504 00
VW 507 00


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:30.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017

Page generated in 0.07485 seconds with 8 queries
[Output: 20.64 Kb. compressed to 19.71 Kb. by saving 0.93 Kb. (4.50%)]