TDIClub Forums

TDIClub Forums (http://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php)
-   VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) (http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12)
-   -   Reduced Clutch disengagement (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=489430)

alaskax May 30th, 2018 22:46

Reduced Clutch disengagement
 
2004 BEW TDI, My clutch will barely disengage, and I'm about to order everything for replacement. I'm just not quite sure if it's the clutch being worn out or something else, since there is no slippage, it just acts like there is not enough "pedal movement" to disengage, and it's starting to grind as I at times have to almost jam it into gear while shifting.
Car has 380,000 miles, replaced the DMF and clutch when the car had less than 100,000 miles since I had it chipped and thought I needed a more heavy duty clutch, purchased a G60/VR6 from DieselGeek in 2007.
So does this sound like a worn out clutch, or maybe something with the hydraulics which is non adjustable? In general, I'm not that hard on the clutch.
Thanks for any advice, I don't want to go after a clutch change if not needed!

phaser May 31st, 2018 02:39

How long has it been since the transmission oil was drained and changed?



.

steve6 May 31st, 2018 06:55

I wouldn't think the hydraulics, but could be fork bent or wearing through pivot ball, or something on the clutch disk/pressure plate is worn. If youre going to do it would be good to do pivot ball, fork(the clip) and the transmission seal along with the clutch.

gforce1108 May 31st, 2018 09:04

I have had both a cracked throw out arm and a trashed DMF cause those exact symptoms. Others have mentioned in the past that a bad pressure plate can do it. You won't know for sure until you remove everything but there is one quick test you can do:
Pull the slave cylinder and measure to the throw out arm. Broken/cracked arm looks like this:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/201...2-13-45_25.JPG
A good one looks like this:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/201...-59-12_986.JPG
The slave can be checked by bolting a plate preventing it from extending. Pedal should be rock hard with almost no movement.

oilhammer May 31st, 2018 09:08

It is possible the release fork just wore through at the pivot point. It happens, eventually. New fork, new ball stud, you're back in business... but obviously the trans will have to come out for this.

gforce1108 May 31st, 2018 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer (Post 5412478)
It is possible the release fork just wore through at the pivot point. It happens, eventually. New fork, new ball stud, you're back in business... but obviously the trans will have to come out for this.

I was surprised to find the ball broken off and imbedded in fork on my 03. It shifted normally, only having a pulsation in the pedal. (303k miles)
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/6895/me...09-01_015.jpeg

alaskax May 31st, 2018 22:40

Wow, thanks for the quick suggestions, really appreciate it. Confession time, a bit of guilt brought on by me, activated by phaser: In 14 years, 9 trips to Alaska from Illinois, some pulling loads, I have gotten over-complacent with the car seemingly needing no maintenance. Well, oil changes of course, and recently replaced timing belt 2nd time. Having said that (sheepish moment now), I have never drained or changed the transmission oil, and have not seen any spec on that requirement. Hopefully I did not create problems for myself here- but I plan to fix whatever it is. I'm a real newbie on the clutch system, so I'm up for a learning curve. Won't be able to immediately attend to this with work out of town next week, but hoping "ya'll" will continue to hang with me on this, sure appreciate it!

SAABNEWBIE May 31st, 2018 23:22

I had the same symptoms in my car. I changed the slave cylinder and clutch line to no avail. when I finally removed my transmission I found the throw out bearing disintegrated.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

steve6 June 1st, 2018 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by alaskax (Post 5412676)
Wow, thanks for the quick suggestions, really appreciate it. Confession time, a bit of guilt brought on by me, activated by phaser: In 14 years, 9 trips to Alaska from Illinois, some pulling loads, I have gotten over-complacent with the car seemingly needing no maintenance. Well, oil changes of course, and recently replaced timing belt 2nd time. Having said that (sheepish moment now), I have never drained or changed the transmission oil, and have not seen any spec on that requirement. Hopefully I did not create problems for myself here- but I plan to fix whatever it is. I'm a real newbie on the clutch system, so I'm up for a learning curve. Won't be able to immediately attend to this with work out of town next week, but hoping "ya'll" will continue to hang with me on this, sure appreciate it!

These transmissions(the 02j manual) don't really need a ton of maintenance, fluid does not hurt every few years.. you'll know if the trans gets low on fluid as it will burn up 5th gear though. Most likely your issue is in the clutch system, its time, its been enough years and rubbing metals only last so long, but do a fluid change while at it, its pretty cheap and easy.

BobnOH June 1st, 2018 07:51

Yes, VW says that oil is lifetime. Most change it because it's prudent.
But please keep up on the other stuff, sounds like that car deserves it.
***Official maintenance schedule for your VW [PDFs inside]***

Little things like lubing doors can really make difference. Seems many ignore or forget the brake fluid change, bad idea.

gforce1108 June 1st, 2018 08:01

I typically do manual trans fluid changes with the timing belt. Perfect interval. Cheap enough too.

alaskax June 1st, 2018 21:22

Correction: the car has 280,000 on it, not 380,000, not sure how I messed that up. But, I agree the car deserves a bit of TLC and even though I'm planning on a 2015, this has really been a faithful "buggy" and I'm keeping it. Would like to get 400,000 out of it or more.
Yes, I've seen the "lifetime" associated with the tranny, but indeed I'll do what's prudent. Has a really big oil leak as well.
I'll attempt to post pics when I find the problem(s).

alaskax September 15th, 2019 17:31

OP here hopefully reviving this thread... did not abandon, just busy with life and doing a lot of other things to the car as well.

Thanks Gforce for those pics with the measurement to the release fork for good and bad scenarios, I already had the transmission pulled assuming I was going to find a mess in there. The fork and bullet bullet stud looked great, the through out bearing was creased a bit, but not bad. Pressure plate tines were not appreciably thinned out from bearing. Clutch was amazingly in good shape yet. BUT, I had all new stuff, including a new clutch and pressure plate (stiffer stage 2). The clutch did not fit with my G60 so I put the old (good) one back in with new pressure plate, new main seal, fork, stud, bearing.

Took a lot of measurements of the new parts and very little difference from old. BUT, put a thick washer under stud just in case, to make sure the clutch released before pedal all the way to the floor. Well, after all together, the measurement per the Gforce pic is 3/4 inch, not 1/2 inch as shown. But I can't imagine that is a problem. Anyways, tested the car and no different than before I did all this. Basically identical, possibly a bit worse.

OK, now changed the clutch master cylinder. Feeling how "tight" the plunger felt compared with the "loose" old one, thought this would be the ticket. No difference at all. Seriously?? Changed out the old slave with new one. Worse. continued soft pedal feel. Did not release the clutch to get it in gear at all. Spent a LOT of effort bleeding, including reverse bleeding to remove the potential air bubble in the master... never had any air bubbles come into the reservoir. Put the old slave back in, and better, firmer clutch pedal, though still a bit soft at first, but of course it SHOULD be easier at first since the pressure plate tines have not moved much yet. I've swapped out the old and new slave about 4 times now, every time the old works way better.

Just seems like there is not enough fluid flowing to move that release fork enough. Seems like it needs more fluid flow from the master. No brake fluid leaking anywhere by the way. Earlier I had blocked off the slave and the clutch felt quite hard. But I got a new slave anyways, just in case.

So basically everything is new in the entire system. It's kicking my butt. How do you get more motion of that slave plunger? I'm about as confident as I can be that there is no air in system. I even compressed and blocked off slave, then bled, to make sure there is no pocket of air left in the slave since the plunger is part way out to make contact with release fork when it's installed, and I figured it's possible that bleeding it in that static configuration will not remove a pocket of air in the slave, but just move the upstream fluid. I've never seen that mentioned before. But in any case, it made no difference.

Do I need a certain brand of master/slave? My new slave being worse makes me wonder if one needs to just keep buying new ones until you happen to get a quality one that works correctly? That's pathetic of course. Bought Bently manual set, and read everything I can on the forums, and I feel like I've done everything, but obviously not, since no improvement. I can't think of anything other than throwing NEW new parts at it. Is that 3/4 inch gap to the fork too much, even after I put in a washer under stud? Should not have to lift the stud with all new parts.

This post is way too long. I'm venting. Would love any suggestions.

roadhard1960 September 15th, 2019 18:27

Where did you purchase the parts from?

Explain your bleeding technique.

alaskax September 15th, 2019 20:30

Clutch master from Oreilly, Power Torque brand:
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b...gen/golf?pos=0

Clutch Slave: Can't seem to remember where I got it from, I think NAPA. Also can't find indication of brand on it.

Bleeding:

Initially, master and slave cylinders installed in car, loosen slave bleeder and attach Harbor Freight air compressor bleeder (WAY better than the MityVac I bought there as well and wore out some time ago, and cheap too!), pulled brake fluid through till no air bubbles, then more to make sure. The bleed valve needs to be turned about 1.5 rotations before it begins to bleed, unlike typical metal bleeder valves.

Subsequently, bought an oiler can, filled it with brake fluid and put together a hose assembly to attach to slave port, and applied brake fluid INTO the port to send it uphill to the master and then the reservoir to make sure there is no air bubble in the master. Got this from a post elsewhere, video link below.
No air bubbles ever seen as the fluid level would rise in the reservoir.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdf--suwqw0

Even after the above reverse method, I would then bleed again using the vacuum system at the slave port just to make doubly sure. My bleeder hose is clear, so I could see the absence of air bubbles as I'm bleeding.

After thinking about other possibilities, it seemed to me that MAYBE a pocket of air stays in the slave, since when installed the slave plunger is part ways out against the release fork, and bleeding from the slave port does not guarantee that the air is removed from the slave cylinder on the plunger or engine side of the cylinder from the bleeder port, so I compressed and blocked off the slave plunger to hopefully not leave any air in the slave since the plunger is fully in, and then vacuum bleed again, close the bleed port, then remove the block from the slave and let the plunger spring back out on its own, drawing only fluid into the slave cylinder. Then after bolting the slave back in, vacuum bleed one more time just to make sure. In almost all of these processes, pure fluid is coming up the bleed tube, no air bubbles. I bought several large cans of fluid to go overkill on the bleeding. I did this same thing on both the old and new slave, and with the new slave, the pedal is always softer and does not release the clutch, as mentioned.

Anything seem wrong with my procedure(s)?


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:33.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017

Page generated in 0.10046 seconds with 8 queries
[Output: 23.01 Kb. compressed to 22.29 Kb. by saving 0.72 Kb. (3.13%)]