post fix DSG update failure - bricked cars with no solution from VW

meerschm

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Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
post fix DSG update failure - six hour fix takes over four months

Jnuary 2018 Update and summary:

January 2018 update: looks like a fix is finally here, for the affected cars. for the few 2009 TDI cars with DSG which would not take the emissions fix software update, it seems an updated mechatronics unit is needed. affected owners will get new notifications.

2009 TDI DSG emissions fix dealer procedure had problems for some cars



Several of us with 2009 model year TDI cars with DSG (automated manual transmission) who chose the fix and dropped off the car at a local dealer have had no joy. My car has been at a local dealer since 15 August 2017.

As of early November, VW came up with updated software, but it seems to only work on half the affected cars....




During a call on 1 November, the emissions claims folks indicated that some 2009, some 2010, and even some 2014 model years have an issue that the DSG will not accept the software update. Affected cars need additional software to enable the software update, and this software update is in development/testing and not fully available.

(note that some cars these years with the DSG have had no issues with the transmission taking the update)

The emissions fix parts are replaced and as a final step, the DSG software update (which changes shift points and is required as part of the approved emissions fix) does not take. The original software remains in the car, and while the car is driveable, technicians are told not to drive the car, and dealers are not allowed to release the car in this condition, and drivers are left driving a loaner.

All our cars are at the dealer, with no feedback as to progress on a fix or any info from VW other than the dealer service person saying they have to wait for corporate VW to let them know.

If you want the fix for a 2009, 2010, or 2014 model year car, and have a DSG, you should wait. (VW has wised up and stopped scheduling these cars)

Manual transmission cars seem to be doing ok.

I contacted VW customer care, who sent me nice messages with no content, except nice words, and saying they are working with the dealer.

I contacted the remediation team (phone number on the claims.VWGoA.com site: [FONT=&quot]844-982-5246) asking if, after two months, I could change to buy-back from the fix, given it has taken them so long. Initial answer from them at once month in was, "no". Ten weeks in, they are asking again.

[/FONT]Following suggestion provided here, I contacted the emissions settlement plaintiff attorney, and got a call back, followed by exchange of information. As of 1 November, the law team is gathering data, and have no updates on the status.

[FONT=Arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]275 Battery Street, 29th Floor[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]San Francisco, CA 94111-3339[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]www.lieffcabraser.com[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1](http://www.lieffcabraser.com/[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1])[/SIZE][/FONT]

One supervising attorney shared a first guess that change to buy back would not be possible, after starting the fix, but that they would ask, given the time delay.

11/10/17 Turns out the fix to the fix has been released before they could complete the legal query. it seems those of use who chose the fix are mostly just happy to get our cars back. (except the unlucky ones like me that this version did not work.)


11/30/17 After waiting patiently for more than three months, I gave up and purchased a replacement (2017 Golf SportWagen S 4Motion with the 1.8L CXBB). Exchange of e-mails with laywers for the plaintif in the overall dieselgate case led me to understand they would allow me to change from fix to buyback. After telling the Lawyer of my decision, I called the settlement web site number, and told them I wanted to change. This time they said ok and would start the process. Case should get reset, and I will have to resubmit requested documentation. Will update once they comply.

12/1/17 Web site reset to step 8, and I uploaded the requested docs this morning.

12/5/17 Paperwork approved. Buyback agreement posted for download.

12/11/17 notarized and uploaded (was out of town last week seeing how the 4motion works in snow)

12/12/17 approved. I updated the mileage on the website and scheduled buyback appointment for 8 Jan 2018 (first available)
when I called the dealer to ask for current mileage on the car, the service rep said they still have no idea when the update would be available.

12/14/17 on second try, obtained verification from the buyback website folks that I do not need to drive the car across the parking lot. since it was parked neglected for four months now with a half-completed fix applied, the battery is quite dead. I am sure I could start it with some effort, but why....


1/3/18 mail brought a new booklet from VW. scanned insides here

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/mech_booklet001.pdf

upside down, but you are smart enough to adjust. bottom line is that this car would have had a new Transmission Mechatronic Unit in the DSG transmission as part of the fix. The transmission would then be included in the 48 month 48000 miles post-fix warranty.

I have moved on with 5000 miles on my 2017 GSW.

1/8/18 buyback appointment completed. (agent unsuccessfully attempted to start the car, verified the miles on the odometer, and took some photos.)
1/9/18 Chase e-mail (after 11 pm)
1/10/18 completed chase registration, entered bank info, requested transfer
1/11/18 $5100 deposit credited to my bank account.
2/12/18 Check from Bosch delivered via US mail.
 
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meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
My car is still in the shop waiting for an update to the DSG fix.

(they started working on the six hour fix on Tuesday, August 15.)

the service rep says he has one other 2009 TDI DSG (sedan) waiting for a new update for the software.
 

mpriolo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Location
New Hampshire
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan, DSG, CP3 HPFP
I'm in the same boat. Dropped my 2009 dsg sedan off last Thursday, Aug 24th. They took off the old hardware that day and installed the new hardware the following day. Everything was going well until they tried to do the dsg software update. VW told the dealer to make sure the customer has a loaner and then park the tdi. Just talked with the service rep this morning and VW has basically told the dealer don't call us, we'll call you when we have a fix. So they have no idea when the car will be ready. 6.5 hours my a**. It has been 7 days so far.

BTW, I don't have the build date readily available - it is 35 miles away. I can tell you that I purchased the tdi in Sept of 2008. So it was one of the early builds for that year.

Marty
 

Meg8

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Location
San Diego
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
My car has been at the dealership, awaiting the fix since August 15th. Not a happy camper at this point.

My "in-service date" for the vehicle is 10/18/2008. Also an early build.

Both the dealership and VW Customer Care have no lead-time on a fix for me. Very keen to learn on thread when others hear anything different!
 
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meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
I bought mine in September 2008. build date 08/08

they could, of course load the old software, but the EPA/VW have not included any provision for such a screw up in the process.

I would guess that since the DSG software update is part of the official fix, they likely have no process for a half-done car which is not allowed for as part of the approved fix.

on the bright side, the increased warranty coverage should not start till we get the cars back.
 

Meg8

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Location
San Diego
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
To mpriolo's comment: "Just talked with the service rep this morning and VW has basically told the dealer don't call us, we'll call you when we have a fix. So they have no idea when the car will be ready."

That is verbatim what I have been told as well. As I have called my service technician at the dealership and/or my customer care regional manager every other day for an update. I opened up a case with vw customer care to try to push from the tech services side, for a leadtime/prioritization for the fix. My vw cc rep has stated that he'll have another update for me on Tuesday 9/5. No chance that over the holiday weekend anything will be resolved: he also thought gen 1 fixes were a two-part process, so he is useless, I'm just trying to keep pushing :mad:

I doubt this is a high priority for them...I've worked in tech support: the way you prioritize software fix updates are based on biggest impact to $$ or sometimes, which customer screams the loudest. I doubt paying for our rentals (my dealership was out of loaner cars so they got me one from Enterprise) for over a month (or who knows how much longer) is that big of an expense to them. Our early-build, opted-fix population is on the small side, I would think...

I guess that was my question: how much of being a pain in their side do you think is beneficial? Thankfully I've never had to deal with their customer service team before now.
 
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mpriolo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Location
New Hampshire
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan, DSG, CP3 HPFP
I bought mine in September 2008. build date 08/08

they could, of course load the old software, but the EPA/VW have not included any provision for such a screw up in the process.

I would guess that since the DSG software update is part of the official fix, they likely have no process for a half-done car which is not allowed for as part of the approved fix.

on the bright side, the increased warranty coverage should not start till we get the cars back.
I concur with your thought process. I asked if I could have my tdi back until the dsg software update was ready and the service rep said "NO". I understand as there is no way to guarantee that I would actually show back up for the SW update. VW can't afford to have half fixed TDIs running around (EPA would be all over them). So our TDIs sit.

Marty
 

N2UADTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Location
New Jersey
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan DSG
The one thing that seems to be working on my 2009 is the DSG trans. See my other post...
Build date is late 2008. What are the symptoms of trans problem?
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
The one thing that seems to be working on my 2009 is the DSG trans. See my other post...
Build date is late 2008. What are the symptoms of trans problem?

The symptom seems to be that as a last step after applying the emissions fix, on at least some 2009 models with the DSG, is a software update (re-flash) of the DSG.

this software update fails, and the car can not be released back to the customer.

my service rep said the car will not even run.

(I think parking the car where it becomes covered with bird crap is an optional step)
 

mpriolo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Location
New Hampshire
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan, DSG, CP3 HPFP
The one thing that seems to be working on my 2009 is the DSG trans. See my other post...
Build date is late 2008. What are the symptoms of trans problem?
I wonder if your dealer even re-flashed your DSG. Mine is also dead in the water after they tried the DSG SW update. And your build date is similar to these other 09's that are having re-flash issues - curious.

Marty
 

Meg8

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Location
San Diego
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
The VW Customer Care rep called yesterday with an update: still no timeline for a fix. No surprise there. He said he'll call me back next Monday with another update. I asked if they can replace the new hardware with old and reverse all changes and give me back my car: he said that depending on the timeline for a fix, that might be a possibility. So next Monday will be one month my car is in the shop... I feel like at that point it's more than reasonable for vw to give us at minimum a timeframe for a fix. Frankly, a timeframe/options are overdue.
 

mpriolo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Location
New Hampshire
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan, DSG, CP3 HPFP
The VW Customer Care rep called yesterday with an update: still no timeline for a fix. No surprise there. He said he'll call me back next Monday with another update. I asked if they can replace the new hardware with old and reverse all changes and give me back my car: he said that depending on the timeline for a fix, that might be a possibility. So next Monday will be one month my car is in the shop... I feel like at that point it's more than reasonable for vw to give us at minimum a timeframe for a fix. Frankly, a timeframe/options are overdue.
Can they leave the new HW installed and instead just reload the old DSG SW? I have a call into my Service Rep and will pose the question to him when he returns my call. If we are pushing into next week, that would be the easiest temporary solution. I realize it requires the car to be brought back at some future time when the re-flash is ready - but there is that $5K incentive to make sure you do.

Regards,

Marty
 

Meg8

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Location
San Diego
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
Can they leave the new HW installed and instead just reload the old DSG SW? I have a call into my Service Rep and will pose the question to him when he returns my call. If we are pushing into next week, that would be the easiest temporary solution. I realize it requires the car to be brought back at some future time when the re-flash is ready - but there is that $5K incentive to make sure you do.
Regards,
Marty
Definitely, I agree. I'll be interested to hear what your service rep says!
 

mpriolo

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Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Location
New Hampshire
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan, DSG, CP3 HPFP
Heard back from the service rep and though it wasn't an outright no, the suggestion wasn't embraced either. His concern was that VW would contact them with the SW update and if the tdi wasn't there, they'd be pissed that the dealership released the vehicle after they were instructed to park it.

He suggested opening a case file with VW customer care.

Regards,

Marty
 

Meg8

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Location
San Diego
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
Heard back from the service rep and though it wasn't an outright no, the suggestion wasn't embraced either. His concern was that VW would contact them with the SW update and if the tdi wasn't there, they'd be pissed that the dealership released the vehicle after they were instructed to park it.

He suggested opening a case file with VW customer care.

Regards,

Marty
I opened a case file with VW Customer Care a little over a week ago, this is the man who has been calling or emailing me with updates every few days, now it's out to a follow-up from him on Mon 9/11. My CC rep wasn't opposed to the replacement/return option, per my earlier post, but he still has zero timing for me, on anything. He mentioned on this last call, that he as a single rep has two more of these cases open, and I know that was three '09 TDI's on my dealership's lot with this issue as well.

Would be nice to know the total number of people affected, as that would give a sense of their priority around fixing it.
 
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meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
I know the dealer my car is at has at least three half fixed 2009 TDIs wating for word from VW. (sounds like the service reps cannot see each others' customer base for some reason. sounds like a pretty stupid software design to me. I really do not care about having a personal representative at the dealer, I just want competent service and honest reports.
 

Meg8

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Location
San Diego
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
The primary reason for opening a VWCC case was to try to contact the technical services side, as my dealership service technician was telling me that is who they were working with to get a software update. My assigned VWCC rep, however, has said he is unable to contact tech services directly: that he has just been calling the dealerships, or regional managers, perhaps, talking to the same people I had already been speaking with, for an update.

He said that VW technical services is a dealership service...and that customer care cannot talk to directly....which makes NO sense. Especially for an issue that is likely affecting at least 100 customers at this point.
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
I am fully under the impression that the vw customer care folks exist with one purpose. get folks to go to the local dealer.

period
 

Meg8

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Location
San Diego
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
My VWCC Regional Case Manager called me for another weekly update (today my car has been at the dealership 4 weeks) and had the nerve to report that in the past week, he hasn't had a chance to talk to the dealership or the "field team" on the issue. So it's clearly not that important. He did, however, (somehow) have the update that the option of getting our cars back, either with old hardware back in, or new hardware: all those combinations of options are probably not going to be on the table, even if we are still months out from a fix. He said he can call me again in a week if he hears anything new on a timeline for a fix. I sent him a somewhat strongly worded email a few hours later requesting exact status (if there is a fix/workaround pending approval with EPA/CARB, if they will even need to go through that whole process again, or if they are still working on the reflash fix/update itself? I told him he needs to err on the side of too much information at this point - a month without a real progress report is unacceptable.

Has anyone else heard anything different?
 
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duratitus

Veteran Member
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Nov 21, 2016
Location
Watertown NY
TDI
Several different models. Selling them back to VW
^^^ Are they providing you a courtesy vehicle to drive until they get it resolved?
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
I went back to pick up another loner (was on the road the past few weeks)

also updated first post here with a summary (let me know or post here, and I will update the first post)

the service rep I talked to said VW called them today to verify that they still have all the cars affected. she considered this a hopeful sign. (why, I do not know)

I joked that the 2016 CC they gave me as a loner would be my daily driver for the next six months.

I asked them for a loaner with a roof rack. no dice.

plans to drive the JSW to upstate NY for some fishing next week, using the car top tent camper.

this is getting serious, interfering with a fishing trip!
 

Meg8

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Location
San Diego
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
^^^ Are they providing you a courtesy vehicle to drive until they get it resolved?
Yes, the settlement allows for loaners while emission fix takes place. But that doesn't really change the fact that they have literally told us zip after a month about what is really going on. Earlier in the thread, you'll see some of us ended up in enterprise car rentals.
 

Meg8

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Location
San Diego
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
I went back to pick up another loner (was on the road the past few weeks)

also updated first post here with a summary (let me know or post here, and I will update the first post)

the service rep I talked to said VW called them today to verify that they still have all the cars affected. she considered this a hopeful sign. (why, I do not know)

I joked that the 2016 CC they gave me as a loner would be my daily driver for the next six months.

I asked them for a loaner with a roof rack. no dice.

plans to drive the JSW to upstate NY for some fishing next week, using the car top tent camper.

this is getting serious, interfering with a fishing trip!
Hi Mike, thanks for the updated initial post. And today's update. It's interesting that they got that call today....I think I'll be paying a visit to my car tomorrow, as I had left a lot of car accessories I have missed and also just to see where/ how mine is doing.
 
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mpriolo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Location
New Hampshire
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan, DSG, CP3 HPFP
Thanks for the update everyone. I didn't talk with my service rep today as I opted for my updates mid-week. I'll let you know if he has any new information to pass along, but I won't be holding my breath. I think I'll stop by and pay them a personal visit this week (and see where they parked my car) - maybe stop by Enterprise after and see if they have any higher priced loaners I can swap the Altima for. Unfortunately, it is starting to look like I might be driving the loaner for a while.

Marty
 

JETTATRACKS

New member
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Location
Illinois
TDI
2009 Jetta
Thanks for this post people. Keep it going until a resolution. I am following to make decisions on what to do with my 2009 Jetta TDI with build date of 08/08. I live part of the year in Florida and part of the year in Illinois and do not need to have my car tied up in a service center when I need to be somewhere. I want to know when the fixes are complete and reliable. I am depending on this forum and thread for reliable information and not a VW service center. Thanks
 

mpriolo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Location
New Hampshire
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan, DSG, CP3 HPFP
Stopped by and spoke with the Service Rep today and unfortunately there is no additional information. He shared some of the correspondance he has had with VW and I found one of the recent replies to him interesting. It said "when there is information available, your dealership will be contacted". Not exactly an encouraging comment.

He also mentioned that another 2009 tdi with a DSG transmission came in this week and VW would not allow the car to be serviced for the emissions recall - customer was told to come back at a later time.

I also checked my tdi while I was there and the build date is 7/08.

I found it interesting that in another thread there is an 09 tdi with a DSG trans that made it through the full recall. The build date for that tdi is 11/08. I mentioned it to the Service Rep and added that the dealership probably didn't re-flas the DSG. He agreed.

3 weeks at the dealership so far. Next week I get to join the 1 month club!

Marty
 

N2UADTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Location
New Jersey
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan DSG
Do we know why just 2009? Is the hardware (CPU) different for 2009 than 2010 etc?
I don't have the build date on my 2009 but I know it was in late 2008. The car is not here so I can not check. Is the build date on the tag on the B column? Can I get the build date anywhere else? Like some sort of VIN check?
 

mpriolo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Location
New Hampshire
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan, DSG, CP3 HPFP
Do we know why just 2009? Is the hardware (CPU) different for 2009 than 2010 etc?
I don't have the build date on my 2009 but I know it was in late 2008. The car is not here so I can not check. Is the build date on the tag on the B column? Can I get the build date anywhere else? Like some sort of VIN check?
No, we don't know what the problem is, just speculation at this point. The CPU SW update goes fine. After that, there is a 2nd SW update that needs to be performed on the DSG itself. That is where the failure is occurring. The build date is located at the bottom of the B pillar. I'm not sure if you can find it elsewhere.

Marty
 

Eliminator SS

Active member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Location
Midwest
TDI
2011 Jetta Sportwagen
My '10 JSW is at the dealership right now for a shifting problem that I don't like following the "fix". My issue has been a recurrent hard downshift. My car will literally slam into gear while coming up to a stop on a downhill. The dealership claims they can't duplicate the problem so I am going to pick my car up tomorrow I guess.
 

N2UADTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Location
New Jersey
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan DSG
My 2009 has a build date of 11/2008. The trans is shifting fine after the fix. The trans shifts at higher RPM than before the fix. But are the shift points controlled by the engine computer or the DSG computer?
How can I tell if the DSG software was updated? Can I see it in VCDS?
 
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