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-   -   540 Rat Real world oil testing (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=485429)

FXDL January 10th, 2018 10:02

540 Rat Real world oil testing
 
Real world oil testing, good, better and best oils to fight wear. Some 209 oils tested. Very good site with real world testing of the oils. Check this site out if one hasn't already. There is oils for gas and oils for diesel tested. I have had this site for some time and thought I would share. Like it or not the oil we might be using, may not be all that good at fighting wear in our TDI's or gassers, motorcycles etc.. Oil company's, big and small say a lot on the bottle of oil we buy, but is it really true or as good as the we are are lead to believe, in some yes and many no. Very good info as when one looking for the best protection from their oil choice. https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/

belome January 10th, 2018 10:50

Oh crud, is this going to turn into an Amsoil fluffing session?

turbobrick240 January 10th, 2018 12:39

I had enough after the first ten pages of the guy exalting himself as the worlds preeminent tribologist, and anyone questioning his methodology or reasoning must be a moron. He strokes his own ego for pages, yet gives no information on his testing apparatus, procedures, or certifications. Eventually there's some data(that I question the accuracy of), but nothing that's going to change which oils I use.

MichaelB January 10th, 2018 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbobrick240 (Post 5369179)
I had enough after the first ten pages of the guy exalting himself as the worlds preeminent tribologist, and anyone questioning his methodology or reasoning must be a moron. He strokes his own ego for pages, yet gives no information on his testing apparatus, procedures, or certifications. Eventually, there's some data(that I question the accuracy of), but nothing that's going to change which oils I use.

I read the first couple of pages and decided that this guy promotes himself to be the end all of all end alls. The evidence is all about what he believes from whatever testing methods he used which he doe not explain. and he believes he be the man and the rest of the world knows nothing. I could make up the same crap and tell you like Mr. Trump that he is a very stable genius.

tdiatlast January 10th, 2018 14:14

"...nothing to see here..."

nicklockard January 10th, 2018 14:47

Blowhard much? He didn't even show the list he keeps crowing about. What a bunk of junk.

FXDL January 11th, 2018 04:00

What can I say, I thought we might learn something from his testing. Please read only the first couple pages and one can then give their "expert opinion" as to weather he knows what he is doing, talking about as some have already done. He tests all oils the same he says, so his tests however it is he does it has some meaning, more meaning then anyone out hear on this site or for that matter any site that I have ever seen. Who cares how he tests the oils ,he tests them all the same. I don't see anyone else testing as many or even close. Maybe he is thinking he is gods gift to oil testing and as far as I can see he is. When any of you so called experts out here test oils to the extreme as he has then you can then claim to be the oil god. I don't see any of you with negative comments getting back with your 209 plus oil tests that you have done. I figured the post I put up would get all you experts back with your expert opinions, or is it Amsoil fluffing. So please all you experts out here please post your oil testing you have done and please show us how you did it, so we know you did it fairly and we can therefore believe you. So when you all test as he has then I will call you the oil God and you the experts. So much for this site as for learning, I guess it was when first started.

tdiatlast January 11th, 2018 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbobrick240 (Post 5369179)
I had enough after the first ten pages of the guy exalting himself as the worlds preeminent tribologist, and anyone questioning his methodology or reasoning must be a moron. He strokes his own ego for pages, yet gives no information on his testing apparatus, procedures, or certifications. Eventually there's some data(that I question the accuracy of), but nothing that's going to change which oils I use.

FXDL: please read the above post.

Windex January 11th, 2018 06:37

I try to give anyone the benefit of the the doubt, but this page is more blatant self-promotion and puffery than anything of substance.

I'll head back over to bobistheoilguy now.

tadawson January 11th, 2018 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by FXDL (Post 5369380)
. . . Who cares how he tests the oils ,he tests them all the same. I don't see anyone else testing as many or even close. . . .

For all we know, he swallows a spoonful, and sees what change it makes to his poop . . . Sure, all tested the same, and all utterly irrelevant without disclosure of the test protocol . . .

James & Son January 11th, 2018 08:36

I read his stuff 2 to 4 years ago.

In all these friction tests and wear tests( rats and others) it boils down to some variation of load speed and time and another variation you can add is initial temperature.

Its not real world because of the narrow scope of his test parameters. Basiclly testing at 135 F. and 30 seconds. I am going by memory but he did let it slip he was using 30 seconds not that that matters.

and the winner is ?

You will notice he don't like Zddp. All breakin oils are terrible in his tests for wear.

In scientific tests: zppd is high friction but low wear under moderate boundary conditions and is called an antiwear additive.

Now under certain conditions of loads and 30 second time frame maybe zppd is totally useless. Get my point.

What he may show is that some additives work very well under his tests. This is basically an antiwear additive test under specific conditions.

My brm cam and followers is wearing out due to start up wear and low rpm wear so I need a naturally high index base oil 5w-40 with acceptable amount of polymers in the 185 range with a high HTHS at 150 C., and the additive package must meet CJ4/Ck4.

You will note I am not wanting a 0w-40 because it starts out with to thin a base oil and is designed for( edit: very) cold temperatures.

FXDL January 11th, 2018 09:27

What can I say. I read everyone's post after I put the site in for one to read and maybe just maybe help them pick an oil they might want to use in what ever they have, but as the norm out here it seems, some have to find something wrong with it. You know if you all can do better at what he is doing then please do so, or if you have proof that he is wrong about his findings then prove him wrong. His testing showed ZDDP that it was not any help in stopping wear and in fact increased wear. ZDDP and there was a lot of hype about it being the greatest additive at stopping wear. He said other additives in oil help prevent wear and I believe better then ZDDP. Now if you would read all he has to say, all the pages not just 2 or some 10 pages you might learn something or not. You all giving your opinion, but his information is from his testing an oil. Now with all testing you know to be wrong please show it so we can say he has no idea what he is doing and all the experts out here can be the new oil god they seem to think they are. Testing he did at I believe 230 degs for the most part, but also at higher temps along with some testing at a low tempature of some 135 degs. If one was to read all he had to say you would, mite learn why he did and why. Now head back tobobtheoilguy as I believe he is using info from the 540 rat and posted on his site.

tadawson January 11th, 2018 09:53

Nobody said he is wrong . . .

Nobody said he is right . . .

What was said is that the test is so poorly disclosed that it is impossible to draw a valid conclusion!

James & Son January 11th, 2018 10:10

The initial starting conditions and the time factor are the big thing. If he does not explain these then how can I make a proper decision if those conditions are part of my wear problem.

There are many standardized wear tests that allow any formulator to test his oil against others. This is only a starting point in oil testing.

The science of oil has been going on since the 19th century. The number of studies put out each year is mind boggling and it takes about 10 years of science allow for the next generation of oil improvements.

I have read his stuff but I learned much more from reading the science automotive of lubrication study and testing. Then I went to BITOG that have some degreed tribologists and only follow there stuff when different oils and additives in the real world are being discussed.

Rats stuff is interesting and may be usefull for( edit: classic) hotrodders. His is just another small data point as far as I am concerned when it comes to understanding real world oil conditions.

tdiatlast January 11th, 2018 10:29

Doesn't "real world" testing involve actual engine use testing, rather than lab testing? Isn't that the whole point of "real world"???


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