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-   -   German court considers first diesel driving ban on an autobahn (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=494189)

eddie_1 December 19th, 2018 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbobrick240 (Post 5466148)
If that salesman is driving at a sustained 125 mph for 3 hours straight, he must be a millionaire (fuel is not cheap in europe) with no concern for the environment. Honestly though, he has every right to feel threatened by the EV invasion.

Almost all sales, marketing and application engineers in Germany, also other countries, drive a company car. They get a free fuel card and spend alot of time on the Autobahn.

In fact most of the better end cars are still bought in fleet sales for companies. Regular folks can't afford them. Then they can put about 50K kms a year on them.

turbobrick240 December 19th, 2018 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie_1 (Post 5466346)
Almost all sales, marketing and application engineers in Germany, also other countries, drive a company car. They get a free fuel card and spend alot of time on the Autobahn.
In fact most of the better end cars are still bought in fleet sales for companies. Regular folks can't afford them. Then they can put about 50K kms a year on them.

It sounds like the guy may have been half joking anyhow. I doubt there are even long enough stretches of unrestricted autobahn to allow for that sort of driving. Even where they are unrestricted, there is the expectation that driver's won't endanger the safety of other motorists. He could have made other superfluous arguments that these new fangled EV's lack the capabilities of a unimog, amphicar, or F16, but it's really just grasping at straws. Though, for a salesperson that spends all day driving around in their car, I can understand why range would be a concern.

showdown 42 December 26th, 2018 08:54

I'd be for making the autobahns bike only all the time,maybe scooters during rush hour. ..Keep everyone close to home in tiptop health, no head on fatal crashes and a financial depression,so everyone has something to complain about. Greens can take credit for economy.

bmw January 13th, 2019 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by showdown 42 (Post 5468075)
I'd be for making the autobahns bike only all the time,maybe scooters during rush hour. ..Keep everyone close to home in tiptop health, no head on fatal crashes and a financial depression,so everyone has something to complain about. Greens can take credit for economy.

I can't imagine riding a bike on snow would be very safe lol

PC Passat February 4th, 2019 18:45

Remember that it was Tesla that converted the first Smart Car to electric for the germans. This led to Mercedes investing in Tesla early on and according to Musk "They saved Tesla from going under very early on".
Tesla's at this point are probably not for the long haul salesmen or twenty-four hour service vehicles, but that is not what our highways are full of. I always thought that a Tdi wagon was the best salesman vehicle around. Just think if they reimbursed you for the miles based on averages!
Tesla just bought a high tech capacitor manufacture. Switching from batteries to capacitors could be a real game changer. I'm not so sure that this not the path VW is taking as well.

turbobrick240 February 5th, 2019 03:11

Teslas acquisition of Maxwell is pretty exciting. Hard to say if they were more interested in the ultracapacitors, dry electrode graphite batteries, or both. I don't think we'll see a switch to capacitors so much as a marriage of capacitors and batteries. Batteries have better overall energy density, and capacitors have better charge/discharge capabilities.

VeeDubTDI February 5th, 2019 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbobrick240 (Post 5480948)
Teslas acquisition of Maxwell is pretty exciting. Hard to say if they were more interested in the ultracapacitors, dry electrode graphite batteries, or both. I don't think we'll see a switch to capacitors so much as a marriage of capacitors and batteries. Batteries have better overall energy density, and capacitors have better charge/discharge capabilities.

I think their interest is primarily in the electrode part of Maxwell. Capacitors have limited benefit in an EV, given their relatively low energy density.

cmc February 5th, 2019 11:02

DW documentary: the diesel disaster
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gguwJRrzzF8

wxman February 6th, 2019 07:58

Thank you for that link.

It still doesn't explain why the EU adopted the WHO guidelines as an ambient air quality standard for NO2, but NOT for any of the other criteria pollutants, especially as noted in the video that the WHO guidelines for NO2 are controversial (40 µg/m3).

In fact, if Europe had adopted the WHO AQG for the other criteria pollutants, 48% of Europe's urban population would live in an area that exceeds the WHO AQG for PM10, 68% that exceeds PM2.5, 96% that exceeds ozone, and 37% that exceeds SO2. NO2 would be the least of their worries if the WHO guidelines were used for all criteria pollutants.

wxman February 7th, 2019 08:17

…Germany’s transport minister has urged the European Commission in a letter to review its stringent limits on nitrogen dioxide pollution, saying some doctors are questioning their health merits…

Note that "toxic diesel particles" are not what is actually being contested here, the EU ambient NO2 limit is.

tikal February 7th, 2019 14:39

Thanks wxman for the 'make you think' posts that are very useful and frank.


I presume in Europe the majority of modern light duty diesel vehicles (10-15 years or younger) are going to be replaced in the next decade or so by gasoline and gasoline-hybrids without gas particle filters (GPF).


Is the overall air quality and GHG emissions going to improve with the above scenario?

rotarykid February 7th, 2019 18:39

a lot of relevant facts not discussed in that german political piece linked to...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wxman (Post 5481774)


Also the mentioning of CARB not having a UFpm limit leaves out the volumes of reasons this is irrelevant to the US auto/transport market.
1) we have not had any numbers of auto class diesels sold here since 1983 MY, the last year without the truck loophole.....

2) and this is the real biggie, gasoline-powered vehicles make up ~32-37 % while diesel-powered autos make up ~60 % of what is on the roads in germany. None of the diesel vehicles they are talking about banning in certain cities were ever offered, much less ever sold here by any make. So our market in no way is an analog for where they are referring to in this piece of political fluff against diesels in general....

3) as said and as we all here for the most part know our UFpm issue has not a thing to do with the diesel offerings we never were allowed to buy here over the last three plus decades.....diesels which today in the auto class make up less than 0.03 % of what is on the road new today.....


Gasoline powered vehicles today make up 99.97 % of all new offering in the auto class..!!!....Not a lot of clean air to be gotten from the over regulation of diesel powered vehicles not sold here in any numbers for close to 35 years now!!!! .....

FACT if you are going to watch that movie on german government policies being considered you have to know that If we are ever are going to clean up the air here gasoline engine'd vehicles must be required to have the same after-treatment crap they forced onto the miniscule numbers of light duty auto class diesels that were allowed to exist here since their crucification of all diesels by the politically based dieselgate attack

flee February 8th, 2019 11:28

Catching and punishing deliberate long-term cheating is political now?
The achievable standards that were intentionally circumvented were established over
several administrations - that a politically motivated poster sees politics comes as no
surprise.

tikal February 8th, 2019 21:43

Justice needs to be handed every time to the dishonest.


The above is not incompatible with a holistic and scientifically honest assessment of the environmental impact of alternative energy sources for transportation:


https://greet.es.anl.gov/net

rotarykid February 8th, 2019 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by flee (Post 5482155)
Catching and punishing deliberate long-term cheating is political now?
The achievable standards that were intentionally circumvented were established over
several administrations - that a politically motivated poster sees politics comes as no
surprise.


Singling out diesels for punishment not ever given to the many gasoline powered offerings caught doing similar or worse over the years sure as h3ll does make this entire thing a political exercise in the US at least!!!


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