5 Speed manual conversion update

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
Well I picked up a 2004 B5.5 with a bad tranny and decided to convert it to a manual. I removed the complete engine and tranny and installed a BSM while it was out. Also inspected the cam, bearings and lifters. Cam was within specs but the lifters had some wear so I decided to replace the lifters and cam bearings.

As for the tranny, I found a donor V6 car with all the necessary parts. I have performed a lot of calculations for various VW trannys and found the optimum one in Europe. So before ordering one from Europe, installing it and being less than pleased with the results, I installed the DVZ 5 speed tranny from the V6 gasser. As expected from my prior calculations the ratios are not what I want but it helps get all my bugs out first.

Several steps were just a royal pain but nothing patience and lack of sleep could not over come.

3-26-12 update
I received my tranny from Europe and installed it along with a SMF Valeo clutch. Have been working with Mike at TDTuning to get the Stage 2 tune dialed in with no lights or codes thrown. Car runs great and is a blast to drive. Have put over 1500 miles on the car since the swap and have avg 33 MPG or above around town. 40+ on hwy but have not had too many trips yet.

Here are some (poor) pics of the manual shifter. One note about the shifter is that I had one on the shelf with clear coat/stain cracked and peeling off. I removed the rest of it, stained the wood underneath and put 4 coats of polyurethane on it. $5 of materials vs dealer cost of $300+ for a shift knob!:D

Also had gauge set leftover from one of my 1.8t cars and installed them as well.


 
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Seatman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Location
Scotland
TDI
2014 Skoda rapid elegance 1.6 cr tdi
Well I say old boy, that wood looks good enough for the queen what what. :D


So what's next? Bigger injectors and turbo for some more madness and fun?
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
Nope. While it would be great to have more power, the blend of power and reliability along with not having to worry about the torque convertor or auto gearbox, I am more than satisfied with the way it is set up.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Awesome.

Hows the chatter with that flywheel/clutch combo? I am told that it takes VR6 pressure plates by one vendor.

Jon
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
None, nice and smooth
 

50harleyrider

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
keep good records of the swap in case I have to do it to your grey one (hopefully not for a while).
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Everyone:

Would like to get some updates about this conversion if possible from the folks that have had limited or complete success. My understanding is that the five speed transmission comes from Europe and it is avialable from a vendor(s) in the US (around $1200). Turbo clutch/flywheel is the Valeo brand ($500 or so). Other points/questions:

* ECU tuning (by TDTuning) enables ABS/ESP to work properly, correct?
* Cruise works by following the Bentley manual (more details please).
* Where does one gets the necessary wire harness for this conversion?
* Brake pedal + clutch + other accessories available from a junkyard?
* Potential risks involved about this conversion? Unacceptable vibration? Etc.
* Other important points/steps I missed.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.
 

lynnejohn

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2002
Location
CT
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
Everyone:

Would like to get some updates about this conversion if possible from the folks that have had limited or complete success. My understanding is that the five speed transmission comes from Europe and it is avialable from a vendor(s) in the US (around $1200). Turbo clutch/flywheel is the Valeo brand ($500 or so). Other points/questions:

* ECU tuning (by TDTuning) enables ABS/ESP to work properly, correct?
* Cruise works by following the Bentley manual (more details please).
* Where does one gets the necessary wire harness for this conversion?
* Brake pedal + clutch + other accessories available from a junkyard?
* Potential risks involved about this conversion? Unacceptable vibration? Etc.
* Other important points/steps I missed.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.
Please add me to the list of possible manual conversion. It would be great to know that I don't have to worry about losing a torque convertor.

Thanks.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
replacing a tc is a lot less complex and costly, especially since you are near Eriksson. Most of those conversions are done by people who do it themselves so labor costs are not factored in. Thousands less.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
Tikal, you pretty much have it correct. You will need the needle bearing for the end of the crank. All conversion parts for the 5 speed can be found in the junkyard (pedals, linkage, hydraulic line for clutch, axles from 2000 up).
You have to make your own wiring connections. Under the dash it is all for the clutch (for the interlock and cruise) which Bentley maual will show you which wires have to go where. The only wires in the engine bay are for the back up lights to work.

It is a lot of fun to drive. I put some LRR 15" tires and rims on and my MPG around town has jumped to 34 from 32. Could possibly be better if I could keep my foot out of it :D

I have a couple of conversions I am working on will be up for sale soon.
 

50harleyrider

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
Tikal, you pretty much have it correct. You will need the needle bearing for the end of the crank. All conversion parts for the 5 speed can be found in the junkyard (pedals, linkage, hydraulic line for clutch, axles from 2000 up).
You have to make your own wiring connections. Under the dash it is all for the clutch (for the interlock and cruise) which Bentley maual will show you which wires have to go where. The only wires in the engine bay are for the back up lights to work.

It is a lot of fun to drive. I put some LRR 15" tires and rims on and my MPG around town has jumped to 34 from 32. Could possibly be better if I could keep my foot out of it :D

I have a couple of conversions I am working on will be up for sale soon.
Give me a quote on converting mine and I won't have to change the title and all the cash will flow your way
 
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vdubvento

Active member
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Location
Southwestern Ontario
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagon, 2004 Passat TDI Saloon
I just had my manual swap completed. These cars should have came like this in North America... would have sold tens of thousands more!

Makes sooo much better use of the engine.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
Adjust the clutch switch for the cruise. I have had issues with them switching properly. Also, if you have not run a wire to the ECM for the cruise you will need to do so. It's either pin 63 or 68
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
replacing a tc is a lot less complex and costly, especially since you are near Eriksson. Most of those conversions are done by people who do it themselves so labor costs are not factored in. Thousands less.
My understanding is that if the TC fails you have to take the whole transmission out and that adds to the downtime and the cost of repair (maybe at least $2000 total to address a TC failure). It could happen at a very inconvenient time also!

So the counteroffer here is to do a preventive mod (5 speed swap) on an schedule basis and avoid future unscheduled down time and costs (less maintenance too).

To me it makes sense IF I understand the potential risks of a five speed swap not working correctly at the end of the day (and hence the reason for this thread).
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Thanks a lot for the replies so far guys.

Would the five speed moders mind sharing notes via e-mail or similar? I will volunteer to put them in a wiki or somewhere TDI enthusiast can access. Please PM me if interested.

My purpose is to get more geographical coverage of folks that can do this procedure (NOT to take potential customers away!).
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Sure, tc requires trans r&r, rebuilt tc 250, new tc, 800, 6-7 hrs labor. anywhere from $1000 up parts and labor.
 

coolsio1234

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2001
Location
Vancouver Bc
TDI
02 Jetta Tdi, 05 Passat Tdi, GL320 CDI
well last night while driving on the freeway I felt something I was scared of from the get go with the Stage 1 tune.... Clutch slip in 5th :(
Now I wonder how tricky it is going to be to just buy the disc and pressure plate for the valeo 1.8t smf kit.
 

coolsio1234

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2001
Location
Vancouver Bc
TDI
02 Jetta Tdi, 05 Passat Tdi, GL320 CDI
Just to make something clear here! Im not blaming the slipping clutch on the Valeo SMF kit. The kit I installed was a used kit I was given for testing purposes. I have no idea on how many miles were on it prior. The Disc looked ok but its hard to judge how much use the PP had. I would not hesitate to use this setup again as the feel of the clutch is very close to stock.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
Just an FYI, on one of the 4 conversions I have done, I tried a "heavy duty" clutch with a lighter flywheel and Sachs disc and pressure plate. In a word, AWFUL. I put 350 miles on it and just swapped in a new Valeo SMF kit like I did with the other 3. The heavy duty clutch was noisy at idle or going down the interstate and it chattered on release. It was a really bad trial. Stick with a new Valeo kit.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
I haven't used them but check out the clutchmasters 240mm option, the flywheels are slightly lighter than we want but their FX100 is good for 450ft-lbs and they clearance for the 5spd starter.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
The Valeo has worked perfect 3 times in a row. Thought I would try the heavier duty on my own car just to see. Won't do that again. Too much work. Will stick to tried and true.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Could somebody post the ratios of the five speed transmissions successfully installed on the Passat B5? Thanks in advance.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
FHN
1st 3.78
2nd 2.18
3rd 1.36
4th 0.90
5th 0.69
FD 3.44

Running approx 65 @ 2000 rpm
 
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tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Thanks folks. This helps put it in prespective. There are so many 012 gearbox codes out there is scary!
 

50harleyrider

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
The 3.44 in the FHN diff makes it the best plug and play choice IMO
 

CharlieT

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Location
Houston, Tx
TDI
Audi TTqTDI, B4V, B5.5V, '12 NMS SEL
A few have asked about EEN trans (I have not fitted this one).
Digging through ETKA it is :

37:10 - 3.70 final drive
10:35 - 3.500 1st
18:35 - 1.944 2nd
31:38 - 1.226 3rd
37:31 - 0.838 4th

41:28 - 0.683 5th

That is a pretty low 4th (big drop from third), I double checked and it is correct. That should be pretty nice for 40-60mph, better than the FHN
Seems the EEN gearbox was used on the AVB engine, which is a UK PD100 TDI
 
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vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
The GGB has same ratios as the FHN. All the other 012's I could dig info on along with another member and found nothing close to these. Quicktd sounds like the EEN box
 
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tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Here is another reference for the 5-speed ratios:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5500/perdavimai.pdf


So comparing the FHN, EEN and QuickTD gears it looks like the fith gear is fairly similar. Meaning doing 2700 rpm going around 80 mph. Do I have it right? Would the overall mileage be also similar if one looks at an average 50/50 city/hwy?

 
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