Thermostat housing interchangeability (land rover swap)

Eyjafjalladylan

Active member
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
1966 land rover series 2a BHW TDI
Hi guys, just about ready to finally start building my 1966 land rover with a bhw in it.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=134263&title=img-20190416-182050&cat=507
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=134264&title=img-20190603-174336&cat=507
Here's a few pics with it mocked up with the bulkhead. Only clearance issue was the huge oil filter housing which I have replaced with a remote filter block from td conversions.
So far my first question is as the title says. Are some of the tdi thermostat housings interchangeable? The bhw one points straight into my engine mount. I'm wondering if there are any better options I could use. I don't have the skill or access to anyone to make me a custom one.
Will try and update as much as I can if anyone is interested. Im taking my 3 weeks vacation and I'm going to work on it as much as possible. I work seven days a week so this is the only way it's going to get worked on!
Cheers
 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
In my experience, there are tons of interchangeable housings. I actually bought stuff from many 1.6(!)/1.8/1.9/2.0 applications on Amazon before settling on a BEW housing. The BEW housing is shared with almost all FWD 4cyl vw/audi applications as best I could tell.

I know mine is cast, but its for a BEW. EAA Engineering used to offer the one I have, with ORB threads. The threads were junk and I ended up having to buy a massive tap to clean them to the point they would seal. Even then, INA is who did the initial casting. INA does not currently make them as far as I know. If you are after a metal housing, it looks like ECS (part ES#3086042) is in the game now. 034motorsports used to make a nice one that you might be able to find by doing some googling. I stuck with a plastic housing until I was done mocking things up, so maybe start there and order a metal one if you so desire once your done bumping things in the engine bay.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
BEW one jogs towards the flywheel end of the engine, then goes straight out sideways. ALH one goes directly straight sideways, with no jog. Neither of these uses the quick connect coupling like the BHW one does.

There are some gas engine ones you could use too, but most of those are the same as the BEW they just do not have the retention tangs inside to hold the thermostat (for some reason).
 

Eyjafjalladylan

Active member
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
1966 land rover series 2a BHW TDI
Awesome, thanks for the info. Think that covers most of it. These plastic housings are cheap so I can get a few different ones and experiment. I will probably end up going with a bew style one, seems like my best bet anyway.

Thank you!
 

Eyjafjalladylan

Active member
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
1966 land rover series 2a BHW TDI
Next question, if anyone knows, or can direct me to a diagram of the coolant system that would be great. Seems a bit complicated on these motors and I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. I'm doing an egr delete, and I'm not running a heater. What I'm thinking right now is do the egr delete on the turbo side, which I believe is just comprised of block off plates and an elbow to loop the coolant flow? Then on the opposite side of the block, plug the hole beside the thermostat housing, as well as the little outlet on the housing on the back of the motor. Does that make sense or would that not work?

Thanks
 

d24tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
MT
TDI
96 B4V
In addition to the ones listed above, even a tstat housing for an old 1.8L gasser or 1.6 TD (like a Mk1, Mk2 Golf/Jetta) will bolt right onto the block. Those are immediate 90 degree turns from the engine so could help if you have an obstacle close to the motor you need to snake the hose around. From memory I don't think one of those would work on an ALH due to the accessory bracket and maybe not a BEW accessory bracket either, but IIRC the BHW housing is enough out in the open that you'd have enough room for the old style if it helped.

Here's an example of how those look,


I went the opposite direction with my AHU Toyota swap and used a slightly modified ALH tstat housing on the old style external water pump that originally took a housing shaped like the one linked above, since I needed it to aim straight down rather than towards the rear of the engine where my motor mount was. Bolted right on and worked great after dressing down one edge that had a rib that interfered. Lucky VAG used the same basic pattern and depth from the mid '70s through the mid '00s (or beyond?) for this, gives us lots of options to mix and match. :)
 

d24tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
MT
TDI
96 B4V
Next question, if anyone knows, or can direct me to a diagram of the coolant system that would be great. Seems a bit complicated on these motors and I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. I'm doing an egr delete, and I'm not running a heater. What I'm thinking right now is do the egr delete on the turbo side, which I believe is just comprised of block off plates and an elbow to loop the coolant flow? Then on the opposite side of the block, plug the hole beside the thermostat housing, as well as the little outlet on the housing on the back of the motor. Does that make sense or would that not work?
Thanks
No heater in Ontario? :eek: :)

Just make sure you have sufficient flow out of the back of the head through what would have been the heater circuit supply. The VAG cars that this engine would have been originally installed in had no heater control valve so they are designed for some amount of constant flow through that circuit, and depend on that flow for sufficient circulation to the back of the cylinder head. You could run a loop back to the heater return (to the tstat area of the block) to simulate flow through a heater core. Might also want to add some kind of restrictor in there so you don't lose too much water pump volume through that loop and make sure enough still circulates through the rad, but it will be trial and error to figure out what that needs to be.
 

Eyjafjalladylan

Active member
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
1966 land rover series 2a BHW TDI
No heater in Ontario? :eek: :)
Just make sure you have sufficient flow out of the back of the head through what would have been the heater circuit supply. The VAG cars that this engine would have been originally installed in had no heater control valve so they are designed for some amount of constant flow through that circuit, and depend on that flow for sufficient circulation to the back of the cylinder head. You could run a loop back to the heater return (to the tstat area of the block) to simulate flow through a heater core. Might also want to add some kind of restrictor in there so you don't lose too much water pump volume through that loop and make sure enough still circulates through the rad, but it will be trial and error to figure out what that needs to be.
I don't plan on driving it in the winter, even though I have a galv chassis I don't trust it'll put up with the Ontario salt haha.
But very interesting in regards to the coolant routing, seems like I'll need to get creative and it might not be as simple of a set up as I had imagined.
Will have to do some more research. Thanks a lot for the info :cool:
 

evguy1

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Location
Erington, BC, Canada
TDI
2000 Jeep Cherokee TDI, 2008 Jeep JKU TDI
I have not had any problems on the Ranger which does have a heater flow control valve.
I think as long as the small 1/4" air bleed line is connected to the top rad hose you should be fine?
I have a very simple setup on all 3 of my swaps. From the lower rad outlet to the T stat housing. From the outlet on the back of the head to the top rad hose. The 1/4" bleed hose off the back of the head is dumped into the top rad hose. The heater comes off the end of the steel pipe that runs around the back of the block from the T Stat location and then the outlet of the water housing on the back of the head. I brazed up all the other outlets on the steel tube.
The rad fans have NEVER come on in 3 years and engine runs perfect temps.
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
I have not had any problems on the Ranger which does have a heater flow control valve.
I think as long as the small 1/4" air bleed line is connected to the top rad hose you should be fine?
I have a very simple setup on all 3 of my swaps. From the lower rad outlet to the T stat housing. From the outlet on the back of the head to the top rad hose. The 1/4" bleed hose off the back of the head is dumped into the top rad hose. The heater comes off the end of the steel pipe that runs around the back of the block from the T Stat location and then the outlet of the water housing on the back of the head. I brazed up all the other outlets on the steel tube.
The rad fans have NEVER come on in 3 years and engine runs perfect temps.
Did you fab something to connect the bleed hose to the upper radiator hose?
 

evguy1

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Location
Erington, BC, Canada
TDI
2000 Jeep Cherokee TDI, 2008 Jeep JKU TDI
On the Ranger and my Jeep XJ I ran a stainless pipe down the passenger side and welded a fitting into it. On my kids JKU I found a plastic TDI hose fitting that has the rad hose size in and out and the small 1/4" nipple Teed off of it. I have no idea where I got that from, it was in my junk pile.


 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The older engines that had the coolant flange to the radiator coming out between #3 and #4 cylinders on the side of the head (between the injectors) had a must-have-flow concern for the heater circuit, as it came out the end of the head. If you did not have the heater circuit moving, #3 cylinder would get hot, and #4 would cook. Seen it happen.

The later engines that have both the radiator circuit AND the heater circuit coming out the end of the head together are less problematic in this regard. However, they will still not keep the engine uniformly at the same temp during some form of operation, but you'd have no good way of knowing, and since most of these "swaps" tend to OVER cool the engine anyway plus ditch the EGR, there is not likely to ever be any problems. You might, maybe, possibly, be able to use a laser heat thermometer to try and find if the block varies in temp as the coolant goes through it, but chances are it would be hard to do.
 

Runninwild

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Location
vancouver
TDI
AAZ swapped 2000 tacoma
BEW one jogs towards the flywheel end of the engine, then goes straight out sideways. ALH one goes directly straight sideways, with no jog. Neither of these uses the quick connect coupling like the BHW one does.
There are some gas engine ones you could use too, but most of those are the same as the BEW they just do not have the retention tangs inside to hold the thermostat (for some reason).

Do you know if bew is roughly the same positioning as the bhw? Looks pretty similar from the pics?
 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
It's basically the same block, just punched out to 2.0, and with an extra oil port for the bsm. As far as accessories and stuff it can use BEW stuff.
 

Runninwild

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Location
vancouver
TDI
AAZ swapped 2000 tacoma
It's basically the same block, just punched out to 2.0, and with an extra oil port for the bsm. As far as accessories and stuff it can use BEW stuff.
I know it'll bolt on was just wondering if it puts the hose in roughly the same spot. I guess a better question is does it clear all the bhw accessories?
 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
I just went through my pictures trying to establish a factual response, and found something of an answer. If you use a BHW accessory set and motor mounts only the BHW thermostat housing fits. The left mount is clearanced for that. If you fab your own mounts, and use BHW accessories, a BEW housing fits. If you use BEW accessories, a BHW housing fowled on the compressor. It's a bit of a puzzle.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

Runninwild

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Location
vancouver
TDI
AAZ swapped 2000 tacoma
Thanks I made my own mount so I'm thinking it'll work. I'll pick one up and give it a try
 

Eyjafjalladylan

Active member
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
1966 land rover series 2a BHW TDI
I have not had any problems on the Ranger which does have a heater flow control valve.
I think as long as the small 1/4" air bleed line is connected to the top rad hose you should be fine?
I have a very simple setup on all 3 of my swaps. From the lower rad outlet to the T stat housing. From the outlet on the back of the head to the top rad hose. The 1/4" bleed hose off the back of the head is dumped into the top rad hose. The heater comes off the end of the steel pipe that runs around the back of the block from the T Stat location and then the outlet of the water housing on the back of the head. I brazed up all the other outlets on the steel tube.
The rad fans have NEVER come on in 3 years and engine runs perfect temps.
This is just the info I was looking for next. Thank you!
Now the donor motor I am planning on using that has a fresh bsm delete I just realized was missing a glow plug. Looked closer, and it's actually sheared off. Who knows how long it's been like that, but I never noticed it when I bought the engine... Tonight I tried the torx bit trick, thought I got it working, threaded it out, and it ended up being just a chunk of the threaded bit, and it snapped off the rest of the plug which is still stuck inside:( and so it begins!
 

d24tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
MT
TDI
96 B4V
The older engines that had the coolant flange to the radiator coming out between #3 and #4 cylinders on the side of the head (between the injectors) had a must-have-flow concern for the heater circuit, as it came out the end of the head. If you did not have the heater circuit moving, #3 cylinder would get hot, and #4 would cook. Seen it happen.

The later engines that have both the radiator circuit AND the heater circuit coming out the end of the head together are less problematic in this regard. However, they will still not keep the engine uniformly at the same temp during some form of operation, but you'd have no good way of knowing, and since most of these "swaps" tend to OVER cool the engine anyway plus ditch the EGR, there is not likely to ever be any problems. You might, maybe, possibly, be able to use a laser heat thermometer to try and find if the block varies in temp as the coolant goes through it, but chances are it would be hard to do.
Oilhammer, here is a question I was just mulling over, relevant to this discussion, that perhaps you would know the answer to.

The old style 1.6L diesel and related gas engines in early A1 and A2 type cars had the same general cooling system scheme as the early type 1Z/AHU TDI, but those older chassis cars did use a heater control valve. The hose came directly off the back of the head and to my recollection didn't incorporate any heater core bypass for when the valve was closed, so there would be no flow through that circuit if the heater control valve was shut. Yet, this didn't seem to cause any serious cooling problems with those engines (at least not any apparent additional problems, beyond what an IDI head, fiber head gasket, and 11mm head bolts already were creating :p).

Did something change in the later engines that went into cars without heater control valves that made them more dependent on flow through the heater circuit for proper cooling? Different size steam holes in the headgasket for example? Why can an old 1.6 IDI survive with this circuit shut yet a 1.9 TDI with the same basic architecture and greater thermal efficiency cannot?
 
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