Tires - H or T

batke

New member
Joined
May 3, 2005
TDI
2001 Silver Jetta
We are the proud owners of a 2001 Jetta TDI. It's time to replace the tires and we are getting conflicting information. The dealer says we MUST put H rated tires on, which only last for about 70 000 km, but a tire shop suggested T rated tires, that last 140 000 km. They said the down side to the T rated tires is we will loose some of the handling. Has anyone put T rated tires on a Jetta? How bad is it? Any difference in winter or summer? This is my first posting. I couldn't find any info on tires in the FAQ. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
We are the proud owners of a 2001 Jetta TDI. It's time to replace the tires and we are getting conflicting information. The dealer says we MUST put H rated tires on, which only last for about 70 000 km, but a tire shop suggested T rated tires, that last 140 000 km. They said the down side to the T rated tires is we will loose some of the handling.
the dealer is correct, installing a less tire (T) can put your personal safety at risk. The tire shop should have a greater concern about being sued for making inapproriate recommendations.

In addition, a T is not necessarily going to wear better or worse than an H.
 

Ferrari

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Location
Mississauga, ON
TDI
2005 Golf GLS TDI
T-rated tires have a softer sidewall than the H-rated ones, but they are no worse or "less safe". If you drive normally, a T rated tire is sufficient, especially if it's a high quality one like the Michelin Hydroedge. If you drive a bit faster and would like a bit better steering feel, an H-rated tire would help.

I don't know what the crap OEM Goodyears are rated at, but they are absolutely horrible in every condition. Replacing them with a quality set of tires, either T-rated or H-rated, will dramatically improve safety.
 

owr084

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Northern Virginia (NoVA)
TDI
Passat GLS, 2005, Stonehenge Gray
A "T" is rated to 118 mph and an "H" to 130 mph. So how fast do you plan on going? If you plan to hammer your car and push it hard, then go with "H." If you plan to take it easy and are aware of the differences between a "T" and an "H," then go with "H." Just make sure the load index is the same or higher.

I faced the same dilemma on replacing the tires on my Mazda MPV. They put H rated tires on a minivan?!?!? Yeah, I know, zoom-zoom-zoom and all that, but I'm not going to drive it like a Miata. Besides - the van itself is drag limited to 118 anyways, no matter how much HP you have. And, 118 mph is the limit for "t" rated tires. So, I made sure that the load index was the same or higher than the original tires and I went with the "T" rated.

Ferrari is correct about Michelin Hydroedges - those were the ones I bought and they work great.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Top speed rating is only one aspect of a tire's speed rating - - there are other considerations.
 

batke

New member
Joined
May 3, 2005
TDI
2001 Silver Jetta
I'm pretty sure I won't be exceeding 118 mph! What about the way it handles? Will the difference be significant? Has any of you driven a Jetta with 'T' tires? Any idea what difference it would make in winter? With the Michelin's we have now, winter driving is a breeze. (I never knew buying tires could be so complicated!!!)
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
it will make the car even lazier to equip it with a rating less than H.

<font color="red"> SPEED RATINGS </font>

A tire receives its speed rating by the U.S. Government through meeting minimum standards for reaching and sustaining a specified speed. What does that mean to you? Well, in general, a higher speed rating will result in better car handling.



Two important notes when considering speed rating:



We do not recommend downgrading the speed rating of your tires. This may result in poor handling and unpredictable steering. However, if you want better cornering response, there is no problem installing a higher speed rated tire on your vehicle.

• Never mix and match tires with different speed ratings on your vehicle. This will cause serious problems with the handling of your vehicle.


Below is a list of speed ratings along with the corresponding speeds they represent. Remember, the speeds are test speeds, not recommended speeds.

Q— Up to 100mph
R— Up to 106mph
S— Up to 112mph
T— Up to 118mph
U— Up to 124mph
H— Up to 130mph
V— Up to 149mph
W— Up to 168mph
Y— Up to 186mph
Z— 149mph and over

Batke, i don't know what else to say. it's your car, it's your family, it's your safety and it's your choice
People are afraid of liability today - - this is a classic case study.
 

nois

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Location
IL
TDI
2013 Passat SEL
I put the inexpensive Douglas Touring on my Jetta... before two months I had to replace one with a 2" nail in it. I drive in some unhappy locales.
Mine are:
Type: Passenger-Touring
Sidewall Cosmetics: Black wall
Temperature Rating: B
Traction: A
Speed Rating: S (112 mph)
Load Index: 89 (1279 lbs.)
Weather: All-season
M+S: Y


Temperature ratings — The letter signifies how well a tire resists heat: A — best, B — intermediate, C — acceptable.

Traction — Letters indicate how well a tire will grip the road surface. Each tire is rated AA, A, B, or C. An AA-rated tire offers the maximum grip.

Speed ratings — The letter designates the maximum speed in miles per hour under specific service conditions: M — 81, N — 87, P — 93, Q — 100, R — 106, S — 112, T — 118, H — 130, V — 149, W — 168, Y — 186

Load indexes — A number that corresponds to the weight that the tire can accommodate. Some examples are: 74 — 827 pounds, 81 — 1019 pounds, 95 - 1521 pounds, 105 — 2039 pounds, 113 — 2535 pounds, 120 — 3086 pounds, 124 — 3527 pounds, 129 — 4079 pounds, 133 — 4541 pounds, 137 — 5071 pounds, 140 - 5512 pounds, 143 — 6008 pounds, 146 — 6614 pounds, 149 — 7165 pounds
 

batke

New member
Joined
May 3, 2005
TDI
2001 Silver Jetta
Thanks. I appreciate all your input. It's hard when a person get's conflicting information, especially from the people trying to sell you the tires! One dealer even told me that if I was in an accident with the T rated tires that my insurance may be void! Which I later confirmed with my insurance company is not true. I'm just trying to determine what's necessary.
 

MacGyver

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2000
Location
SW Ont, Canada
TDI
1997 Jetta, black
I have dedicated winter tires so I'm not concerned with winter performance, but I just put T rated tires on my 97 Jetta this spring. They do not have the crisp 'on rails' feeling performance characteristics as the H's.
Am I concerned for my safety? No.
I'll be a father within a month, and I am confident my decision will not compromise my child's safety in any way either.
They are excellent top of the line tires, and I don't auto-x my car, nor do I pretend to on the streets.
I have had them up to 120mph indicated, and suprisingly I lived to tell the tail. Two things on that note: VW speedos are optomistic, and IIRC the T & H top speed ratings are sustained ratings. I don't get frequent opportunities to sustain that kind of velocity

As I mentioned previously, handling is different compared to my previous H tires. This is due in part to the lighter construction, and the 'harder' rubber composition of the T's
The composition difference is also what helps the T's achieve a much longer treadlife rating than the H's.
Does this concern me? With the amount I drive, yes.

Now, if I installed some no name offshore second rate bargain basement priced PoS tires with no speed ratings at all, just to save $5, then yeah, I'd expect my freeway journey to end someday with a blowout & upside down firey crash into the median...and I'd deserve it
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
Tell me WHAT is different (besides the speed rating) between H rating and S rating ? Since putting on the S rated tires, I've had a better, quieter ride, no discernable change in handling, no change in fuel economy - what am I supposed to be missing compared with H rated ? I've never had my car over 90MPH (never mind approach the S limit), so I repeat - what am I missing ?
 

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
What are you missing? Besides a LOT added to the price tag... Glue. Glue between the plys that can sustain a higher level of heat, for a longer period. Is there a substantial difference in the sidewall strength? Not so much. The main differences in cornering are more related to the lower operating pressure (usually 35psi) of the S rated touring tires, versus the "performance" pressure of 44psi on the H rated. If you have ultrasport H rated like I do, then the pressure is 51psi. Also, look at the physical size ratings on the tires. Stock size is 195/65/15. If you buy 195/70/15 then you are getting a taller tire, the sidewall will be 70% of the tread width and the car will get slightly better mileage (tires spin slower) at the cost of softer cornering. Same result if you buy 185/75/15 which should also fit. Total increase in height from 195/65 to 195/70 is about 1/2 inch of overall diameter. Smaller sidewall ratios (60/55/50) will increase the cornering stability, at the cost of mileage since the tires will be shorter. My next set I am going to look at Falken 205/60 so I get the same overall height, but a slightly wider tire for better braking. I would go with 205/65, but I'm not sure about the turning clearance.

All will be the ultrasport 51psi Falkens tho, and at $70 per tire, who cares if they are H rated! (they are)

--Jim
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
So, the S rated tires I put on ARE the stock size (205/55 ?R16 on a NB), they use up to 44 PSI (I run 38). No difference. I do admit I was a bit concerned that they are only 89 load rating, and not the 91 load rating. I figure that won't really come into play unless I seriously overload the vehicle.

So far - all anybody is saying is that the H rated tires will provide (some) margin of better handling because they are stiffer because the plys are better glued together - OK. If I did alot of high performance driving, I could maybe see the difference - but right now I'm being money concious and these were the cheapest things in the correct size. These Continental Ultrexs are working just fine for me right now (50K mile or 60K mile treadlife). I KNOW they are not the best tires around - I would like to put on the Goodyear tripletreads next go around. But they were what I could afford at the time. And so far, I've been pretty pleased with them.
 

Bryan42

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Location
Iowa
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI, Blue
I'd recommend looking at the tire surveys at tirerack.com. They are quite useful in finding tires that fit your style of both vehicle and driving.

Speed ratings are misleading, as they affect much more than top safe speed of the tire. Again, see the descriptions at tirerack.com for good descriptions of what everything affects.
 

tjl

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 19, 2001
Location
California, USA
TDI
2001 Golf GLS
Tell me WHAT is different (besides the speed rating) between H rating and S rating ? Since putting on the S rated tires, I've had a better, quieter ride, no discernable change in handling, no change in fuel economy - what am I supposed to be missing compared with H rated ? I've never had my car over 90MPH (never mind approach the S limit), so I repeat - what am I missing ?
S = 112mph
T = 118mph
H = 130mph

Usually, the higher speed rated tires are sportier in terms of handling and braking characteristics, although some lower speed rated tires do quite well in these characteristics. Other lower speed rated tires may emphasize long treadwear (80,000 miles or so, compared to 50,000 to 60,000 miles for H rated tires), while still others are offered as just cheap tires ("4 for $100" or whatever).

Some lower speed rated tires have pressure maximums of 35psi. Since VW's recommended pressures are higher than 35psi, it may be wise to ensure that the tires have a pressure maximum at least as high as the VW recommended pressures.

Perhaps as important or more important than the speed rating is the load index. VWs with 195/65R15 tires came with tires with a load index of 91; most tires of this size come with the slightly lower load index of 89.
 

WisTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
none now; formerly had an '03 Jetta GLS
I went throught this exact same decision nightmare. I decided to stick with a 91H rated replacement. I decided based upon talking with a few tire shops including Tire Rack...give them a call. My decision was based upon handling and braking aspects of an H vs T rated tire. Besides, I get "tired" of the tires after 50 or 60k. Good luck.
 

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
What does your owner's manual say about the tires that you CURRENTLY HAVE ON THE CAR, if they DID NOT COME WITH THE CAR!

This is the fallacy of reading the manual or that stupid sticker in the fuel door. My owner's manual says I should run my tires at 32 and 28psi. EXCEPT, that sticker and book don't know that I DON'T HAVE THE GOODYEARS ANYMORE! That sticker was printed to correspond ONLY to the original factory tires, or replacements of exactly the same brand / model. For anyone who changes brands or tire spec (Oh, I don't know, buys ULTRASPORT tires like I did) then running a 51-max psi tire at 32 or 28psi is ASKING FOR A BLOWOUT!

Call Tirerack and ask them about this one: "If I buy these Falken 195/65/15 91H with a max pressure of 51psi... Can I run them at almost half of their pressure without failure?"

It may take a while for them to stop laughing.

The simple fact is this: It's your car, do whatever you want. BUT, don't ever run any tires at more than 10% below the absolute max printed on the side, you are asking for trouble. Remember Firestone and Ford? That is what Firestone was telling people, and Ford (who doesn't make tires) was telling people different. Every single failure was from underinflation.

--Jim
 

GotDiesel?

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 11, 2000
Location
Pacific NW
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS
The manual and sticker for my car recommends a tire pressure that is more than 10% below the max pressure on the OEM tires. This well after the Firestone/Ford debacle.

Tires are an area where everybody seems to have their own belief system. Tenets of faith include what pressure should tires be inflated to; whether a 115 mph car needs tires rated to 130 mph or that are rated to carry more weight than the axles themselves are rated for..

My own belief is that a 91H tire is overkill for a TDI Jetta or Golf and that an 89S tire is certainly adequate for my needs.

If somebody is able to cite a court case where an insurance claim was denied on the basis of tire fitment that meets the physical requirements of the car but is less than OEM spec, I'll reconsider my choice.

FWIW, the folks at TireRack.com did call me to tell me that the tires I ordered were rated lower than the OEM. When I said I didn't expect to overload my car or drive over 100 mph they sold me the tires.
 

maxforce

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Location
VA
TDI
04 Golf, 04 Jetta, 84 300SD
What does it say in the owner's manual? Use the spec from there!
As I said before.....how does the owners manual know what tires you have? The contacts that I am taking off are being repalced by kumhos that have a max pressure of 51. I, like one of the previous posters would not want to runs these at 30 psi. Pick your tire and inflate by tire information, not car stickers.
 

jck66

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 4, 2001
Location
Greenwich, CT, USA
TDI
12 Passat SE / 14 BMW 535d
IIRC the original question was "H or T", not "what pressure should I use". All I meant was to look at the spec in the manual and use that as a minimum, instead of launching a debate about the merits of speed and load ratings. If the spec is "H", then don't use less than "H". That's all.
 

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
If a car maker is pressed by a tire maker into installing H or V rated tires onto a minivan or worse, an SUV... What is the owner to do? Continue to vastly overpay for tires for their vehicle which cannot physically acheive the performance that the tires allow, or buy something that is better suited to the use and the wallet?

Tire makers offer tires to OEMs at a greatly reduced price. Not just because they buy in bulk, but b/c then those tires become the "spec" for that vehicle. Like our having 91H tires on a car that in stock form, CANNOT make full use of the tire's capabilities. Completely ignoring the speed laws in this country, the upper limit of the car's performance is less than 118mph, unless you happen to be going downhill in a hurricane. The weight limit of the car, unless you filled it with bags of cement, is much less than the load limit of those tires.

So, the OEM was given a set of treads that are perfectly adequate for the vehicle... In the same way that a bathroom made entirely of solid gold is perfectly adequate to bathe in. It's just excessive when it doesn't need to be. Back to the SUV example. Would you put a set of H rated tires on an Escalade? GM has. I'm not sure if the super-SUV is even capable of 118mph, but I'm sure it could only do it for about 3 minutes before running out of gas! Why then? Because the tire maker KNOWS they will make PILES of money from people who only buy what the vehicle came with, instead of using that orb atop their shoulders.

Being arrogant isn't the biggest American flaw, it's being unobservant and uneducated about our options.

--Jim
 

jbrone

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Location
Ohio
TDI
R.I.P.: '98 Jetta TDI
One consideration to move to "H" rated tires

My in-laws moved to Arizona, and tire dealers there suggest the higher heat index "H" rated tires because the heat generated from traveling the super hot highways at 75-80 MPH has caused blow outs. Thus if you do a lot of summer highway travel in the southern states, maybe the "H" tires are a valid choice.

I have a Golf and a Jetta - the Golf has "H" rated tires and the Jetta "S". The Jetta handles more mushy, but likely due to the Monroe shocks vs. the Golf's Bilstien's. The Walmart/Michelin "S" tires are noisier than the Continentals, Goodyears, or Kelly "H" tires I've used. Tread design is not so great for wet weather handling on the Michelins.

The Tire Rack web site is great for learning more and getting price ideas.
 

pugman

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2004
Location
Ky, U.S.A. & Ft Knox, Ky
TDI
Jetta SW, 2003, Reflex Silver
batke said:
We are the proud owners of a 2001 Jetta TDI. It's time to replace the tires and we are getting conflicting information. The dealer says we MUST put H rated tires on, which only last for about 70 000 km, but a tire shop suggested T rated tires, that last 140 000 km. They said the down side to the T rated tires is we will loose some of the handling. Has anyone put T rated tires on a Jetta? How bad is it? Any difference in winter or summer? This is my first posting. I couldn't find any info on tires in the FAQ. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!
This has happened to me on several occasions (vehicles) and I have gone with a quality tire instead of what the dealer/tire store has stated! The first time this happened I needed new tires for a 1981 Peugeot 505 TD that came with H rated tires. The car would not go over 80mph down hill! Why would I ever need speed rated tires if I was only driving a max of 70mph! I was told that the handling characteristics would suffer. Give me a break; it is not a sports car!

The second time I needed new tires for a 1992 Dodge minivan, again I was told to put on H rated tires. I came to the same conclusion that I did for the 1981 Peugeot; it is not a sports car that will be driven to its max!

The last time I needed new tires was for my 1970 Olds Ralley 350. This time no one said anything about what tire I needed to use. I did opt for the H rated tires this time. Go figure.

I guess what I am trying to say is, go with the tire that suits your driving style and conscience.
 

donfromnaples

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Location
Naples, Florida
TDI
2004 New Beetle Blue and 2009 Jetta TDI Sportwagon
Go to Sam's Club. They are the only ones that carry this very good Michelin X Radial DT. They last for like 80,000 miles, cost like $85 each, and have top rolling resistance.
 

raybo

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Location
St. Petersburg, FL
TDI
2010 JSW DSG White Gold
For most occasions, driving 70 mph or less, an S or T rated tire would probably suffice. However, H-rated tires that are highly rated by Tirerack and other surveys provide an extra margin of emergency handling (in wet and dry) for the rare moments when you have to avoid hitting something or someone. Most S and T rated tires are only 89 load rated, adding to the mushiness, especially under load (as in loaded with the family). I once made the mistake of getting well-reviewed 89H Dunlops for our Benz which required 91H. When cornering, the tires felt as if they were about to roll off of the wheels. By the way, as I have mentioned in about 8 posts already, the Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S 91H tires are fantastic on the Golf.

Perhaps most importantly, driving with better handling is always more fun - even with stock 15's.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
This thread shares remarkable parallels with the 505.00 oil being used interchangeably with 505.01 ;) ...and disregarding an established, baseline spec.
 

jbrone

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Location
Ohio
TDI
R.I.P.: '98 Jetta TDI
Swapped wheels/tires to see if it matters

Both my A3's are due for tire rotation, so after reading this post I wondered if putting the "H" tires on my Jetta would make a difference. The Jetta came with "S" rated 196/60 R 14 tires when I bought it. The car seems a bit mushy around corners. I took the "H" rated tires (195/60 R 14) off the Golf and put them on the Jetta as a science fair type project.

I am truly surprised in the improvement in handling. I feel more confident in the curves, and found myself taking them much faster than yesterday. I especially enjoyed Rt. 28 heading toward Greenfield.

Not the most scientific trial, but I'm convinced.
 
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