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-   -   Balance shaft delete. How to and part numbers (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=349932)

Whitbread April 16th, 2012 14:07

Balance shaft delete. How to and part numbers
 
Here's the list of PN's needed for the swap. Will be updated with pics as project progresses.

Crankshaft oil pump sprocket - 06A105209B
ALH oil pump - 06A115105B
BRM sprocket - 038115121A
BRM chain tensioner - 038115130
BRM chain - 038115230A
ALH oil pump bolt, 3 needed - N90704007
1.8T Oil pump pickup tube - 06B115251
ALH Windage Tray - 06B103623P

DO NOT FORGET TO PLUG THE BS MODULE OIL FEED HOLE!!!!

nowback April 16th, 2012 19:39

would be nice to know average prices of the parts above.
I might have to do the same job on my 2005 project passat.
not sure if i would pay the price of a new gear bsm in or do a delete.
I think the only way i would do it with a new bsm would be if i can pull some
strings and get a deal from vw for the parts.
matt

abctdi April 16th, 2012 20:55

So this replaces the BHW chain driven oil pump with a BRM/ALH chain driven oil pump?
Why do that?

aja8888 April 16th, 2012 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by abctdi (Post 3772611)
So this replaces the BHW chain driven oil pump with a BRM/ALH chain driven oil pump?
Why do that?

No heavy balance shaft module to reduce engine vibration in oil pump drive system.

DeliveryValve April 16th, 2012 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 (Post 3772617)
Quote:

Originally Posted by abctdi (Post 3772611)
So this replaces the BHW chain driven oil pump with a BRM/ALH chain driven oil pump?
Why do that?

No heavy balance shaft module to reduce engine vibration in oil pump drive system.

I would do it if you are going with a manual transmission. The use of a heavier flywheel would essentially do the same job as a balance shaft.



.

Whitbread April 16th, 2012 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by abctdi (Post 3772611)
So this replaces the BHW chain driven oil pump with a BRM/ALH chain driven oil pump?
Why do that?

>$300 vs $1400. That's why.

nowback April 16th, 2012 21:32

I assume thats directed at me,,,lol
I am trying to shame someone i know who owns a vw dealership into
a deal on parts.lol
but the price difference is so great i can see a alh oil pump going in
if i have to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitbread (Post 3772559)
How's that?


oilhammer April 17th, 2012 04:23

I think if you are bolting it to a manual, it should be fine. Supposedly the "maybe built, maybe not" BGW engine was made this way, and it was the exact same as the BHW otherwise but got bolted to a proper gearbox instead.

Not sure about with the slushbox, though. Someone else did one here where he machined off the balance shafts' lobes and reported it vibrated quite a bit worse that he expected.

Here's the kicker, though: my own BHW at idle never lets you forget it is a diesel. It is not bad, mind you, but it does have some vibes through the car much more than the 1.8t engine in the same car. Also, my 1.9L TDI idles so smooth you'd think it stalled when coming to a stop unless you look at the tach.

So, is the idle NVH in the BHW worse because of the balance shafts, but better than it would be without at say 2500 RPM? Would negating them make it smooth(er) at idle but have an annoying buzz at 2500 RPM? I too am really curious, as I am using a BHW bottom end in a punched out ALH block for a project car... without balance shafts. But it will be bolted to a manual, although it will not use a DMF.

Interesting though.

JFettig April 17th, 2012 04:45

oilhammer: don't forget Louis was using V6 motor mounts at the time. It would be enough to rattle your teeth for sure.

I am very curious to see how it will do. My 1.9L B5 definitely vibrates a little more than an ALH in a MKIV

Jon

dogdots April 17th, 2012 04:52

The CBEA has the balance shaft module, and plenty of those are bolted to manual trans cars. I wonder why the BHW longitudinally mounted, only bolted to a ZF auto from the factory, and the CBEA transverse mounted, bolted to manuals and dsg's need balance shaft modules while they were not needed on BRM, BEW, ALH, etc. Does that extra 25cc per cylinder really make that much more vibration?

I'll be interested to see if the ALH/BHW combo in Brian's project above vibrates badly or behaves like an ALH.

oilhammer April 17th, 2012 04:57

Not sure it is the extra displacement, but the extra weight of the pistons. Also, the PD pistons are heavier than the VE, plus they also use fatter wrist pins. Not sure about the weight of the rods, though.

Lug_Nut April 18th, 2012 16:45

The BHW balancers are counter-rotating (only effective in the up-down axis when both are going up or down, not when one goes left and the other goes right) and driven at twice crank speed.
This indicates that they are intended to counter the power pulses (4 per two crank revolutions), not to counter the reciprocating masses of pistons and top half of the con-rods.

Single shaft, dual mass, counter rotating balancers (like in my V4 Saab / Ford) driven at crank speed are intended to counter the 'rocking-horse' effect created by the four reciprocating masses of the pistons and top of the connecting rods. As the 3-4 punch pushes the pistons down (and pushes up on the head) the mass at that end of the balance shaft fights against the block being pulled up by the head bolts. The mass at the other end of the shaft fights to keep that other end of the engine steady during the 2-1 punch.

Oh, for an inherently smooth three cylinder Otto cycle engine......

vwztips April 19th, 2012 06:08

So LNut, are you saying this is not a wise move to delete the BSM when going to a manual tranny?

Lug_Nut April 19th, 2012 18:43

If you will use the clutch to hold the car on a hill you'll be duplicating the added power that the auto uses in drive at standstill and you'll want for the balancers.
If you are normal and use neutral (or the clutch dis-engaged) and brakes when standing still you might not care, but do the full conversion to obtain a duplicate of the shaft-free, 2.0 PD B5 manuals that were available elsewhere in the world. Cutting the lumps off the shafts alone isn't enough.

sirpuddingfoot April 23rd, 2012 08:38

FWIW, I plan to do this in ours this summer. Yes, it's still chained :mad::eek: Yes, my wife finally agreed that a 5spd would be ok when the ZF dies.


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