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-   -   No start: flashing glow plug indicator, broken crack shaft sensor wire, no fuel (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=475030)

m.walter March 11th, 2017 09:19

No start: flashing glow plug indicator, broken crank shaft sensor wire, no fuel
 
I am looking for advice to get my 2005 Passat GL TDI running. When I put the key in run position, the glow plug indicator light flashes. When I turn to crank, it just keeps cranking. I found that I had a rodent problem. The thing was hanging out in the hollow just forward of the fuel pump. It chewed through the crankshaft sensor wire. I tried splicing the wire (at least yellow, black and bare leads ... the red was some kind of a thread). It was difficult because the insulation was really brittle. Part of the camshaft sensor wire is also exposed, but I don't think it is cut or shorting. The splice of the crankshaft sensor wire did nothing. I hear the ASV opening (I think) and it closes in two stages when I turn the key to off. When I turn the key to run, I also hear a relay click. Sounds like it is up in front of the windshield, maybe 219? I do NOT hear the familiar whoosh of fuel, so it seem that the fuel pump is not being energized. I checked what I thought was the relevant fuse, and it looked fine.

The repair of the crankshaft sensor wire may have not been successful, but I am wondering if there are other things to check before I put in an order for a new sensor.

Possibly related, for a few months now I have been getting an intermittent "Workshop Emissions" light. The code for it seemed to be intake valve motor. This light did not effect starting. I have, however experienced some harder starts in recent weeks. The day before it did not start, everything was normal. I am thinking the rat was busy that night and hence the next morning, blinking glow plug light and just cranking and no fuel whoosh sound.

vwztips March 11th, 2017 09:50

Do you show any RPM while cranking? The better way to check is if you have VCDS you can check to see if you are showing RPM.

Splicing that particular wire succesfully can be a challenge.

vwztips March 11th, 2017 09:51

BTW sometimes my pump "swooshes" and sometimes it doesn't.

m.walter March 12th, 2017 00:13

Thanks vwztips. No RPMs. As I was doing it, I was thinking that my splice was no good. I did it in a hurry and the insulation on the yellow and black wires was super brittle. There was also the red "wire" that was actually just like thread. I didn't splice this red b/c it could not be soldered. I will order a new one, along a replacement for the partially chewed-on cam position sensor too.

I feel like my fuel pump always swooshed, but maybe I don't listen all the time. I don't have VCDS. I've thought about buying it, especially since I've been getting this emissions workshop light and I also feel like fuel economy is off. I've made this car a long-term investment (Oilhammer did the balance shaft module replacement a few years ago). It is also time that I started doing more of the work on it myself.

Windex March 14th, 2017 11:18

Have you scanned the car to see what codes are set? If you have the flashing GP light, you will have codes that will point you in the right direction...

m.walter March 14th, 2017 23:26

Bummer! No luck after I replaced both the camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor. Both had been chewed on. Still the same symptoms for turning the key to run: relay clicking, ASV making noises (opening?), flashing glow plug indicator, then after a few more seconds "Emissions Workshop" appears. At no point do I hear the familiar swoosh from the fuel pump. If I crank, there are no RPMs. When I turn the key off, I hear the ASV moving. It moves in two steps. It also seems to emit a high pitched "ringing" a couple seconds after everything else stops making noises. I think that the ASV is causing the emissions workshop warning. I have had it intermittently for the last few months. It never caused anything obvious with performance (and certainly did not give me no start conditions).

Thanks for the suggestion Windex. I don't have a scanner, but maybe it is time to invest. I will check with some friends first. I really want to avoid towing to a shop or worse, the dealer.

m.walter March 15th, 2017 00:33

Hmmm, was thinking about this more. If I was cranking without a working crank position sensor, then the ecu is probably confused. So this shows my newbie status. I probably should have done this with the battery disconnected? Is resetting the ecu just a matter of disconnecting the battery for a few minutes? I have also seen people say that I need to touch the + and - wires together (not on the battery, of course). Sorry for the dumb questions. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Windex March 15th, 2017 06:29

Scan the car... :D

Scubanero March 15th, 2017 17:32

You can verify your fuel pump operation by disconnecting the return line and collecting the return flow in a bottle. You should get a couple of tablespoons when you turn the key ON without cranking.

m.walter March 17th, 2017 00:47

I borrowed a scanner. The first code is P0727 (Engine Speed Input Circuit No Signal) and the second is P2100 (Throttle Actuator Control Motor Circuit/Open). I believe the P2100 is what gives me the Emissions Workshop warning, but I have had that before while the car was still operating somewhat normally. So I am going after P0727 as the main culprit.

I just replaced the engine crank position sensor. Perhaps there are a few possibilities: 1) I did something wrong while replacing the sensor (not much to go wrong, though), 2) my replacement part is defective (what are the odds?) or 3) there is something else in the engine speed circuit that went bad when I cranked the engine with the damaged crank position sensor.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

oilhammer March 17th, 2017 05:16

I would remove the cowl cover (the part you remove to replace the cabin filter, battery, etc.) and check for chewed wires in there. Specifically, the part where the harness from the engine goes into the box on the driver side of the car. The Engine Controller lives in there, along with its power supply relay.

I would also see if any other modules have DTCs in them, specifically the CAN Gateway, Instrument Cluster, and the Transmission Controller.

The engine does crank normally, just does not start, correct? This is not a weak/dead battery issue then?

m.walter March 17th, 2017 11:31

Thanks Brian. Cranking is normal. Battery has been on a charger; it is good.

I will look in the places you suggest. There was nothing obvious on the engine side of this area, so I am not hopeful. I will also see if the scanner I borrowed is able to find other DTCs.

Do you think I need to address the Throttle Actuator Control Motor Circuit/Open DTC in order to get past the no-start issue?

oilhammer March 17th, 2017 12:38

Well assuming your generic scan tool is giving you the correct info, the intake flap generally will not cause a no-start condition, as they spring load to the wide open position.

m.walter March 18th, 2017 20:59

After an afternoon of looking and fiddling around, I still have not got her running. I did not see any issues with any other aspects of the wiring. I did peak into the ASV. There was a bunch of oily soot. I wiped it off as best as I could (without taking it off) and re-attached all the tubing. I went ahead and erased the DTCs on the scanner. This cleared the flashing glow-plug indicator light. Still, while cranking, the RPM gauge does not show anything and it will still throw the P0727 (Engine Speed Input Circuit No Signal) DTC on my generic scanner. Unfortunately, my generic scanner does not seem to check for any other modules.

After cranking for about 5 seconds, I get "STOP" and a brief flashing glow plug indicator and then oil pressure monitor. The Emissions Workshop message is intermittent. Currently, the glow plug light goes off when the key is in the on position. It all appears normal. It cranks with what sounds like normal speed, but ... it does not start and gives me the oil press warning. I measured resistance on the CKPS and saw 488 ohms across two pins. I have not tried to check the CKPS while cranking.

Did I need to re-set anything after installing the CKPS? I did replace the cam position sensor as well, but both of these replacements were painless and uneventful. Could anything have gone bad (fuses, relays, ECU, Fuel pump?) while I was trying to start the car with the bad CKPS in the first place?

I am definitely out of things to try. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

whitedog March 18th, 2017 21:17

I would say that you need to start checking the wires to the CKP. You have looked things over but now you need to test the wires between the ECU and CKP. Don't rely on a simple continuity check, to test the wires, you need to test them with a load.


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