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-   -   BHW Balance Shaft Module replacement (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=233651)

Smokerr February 5th, 2009 21:14

Chains are tricky things, you really cannot see whats going on in them, and if the wear is uniform, they can simply break with no notice (ask any motorycl rider who has had that happen!).

Poor sprocket fit (tolerance which seem to be a significant part of this issue) would stress the chain. If you had all the specs you might be able to detect it with a stretch measurement, but not easy with a closed loop chain to the accurancy you need (and a mute now anyway).

2004PassatTDI February 6th, 2009 10:10

Byo Bs?
 
Do the repair shops care if customers bring in their own BS and TB kits? I would like to get the BS repair done as soon as I can break away from work. Iíll have little advanced notice when the window of opportunity presents itself, and with my luck, parts will be on back order.

Thanks,

Ernst

Route 66 February 7th, 2009 07:35

With as large as a base of diesel enthusiasts that are on this website my thought was that VW should be trying to help us with producing or finding more gear driven BS Assemblies.

Scott_DeWitt February 7th, 2009 08:15

Agreed I just purchased the last two assemblies in European stock.

oilhammer February 7th, 2009 10:11

Lug Nut's car BROKE on the way here...!!! :eek: He JUST made it, chain tensioner came out of the engine in TWO PIECES!!! :eek:


Talk about lucky!

VeeDubTDI February 7th, 2009 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
Lug Nut's car BROKE on the way here...!!! :eek: He JUST made it, chain tensioner came out of the engine in TWO PIECES!!! :eek:


Talk about lucky!

Holy crap! :eek: How's the GTG going?

Route 66 February 7th, 2009 16:02

Glad he made it safely, did he just roll into the garage?

oilhammer February 7th, 2009 17:18

OK, 3 down, 2 to go.... :)

Lug_Nut February 7th, 2009 19:10

Car was as quiet as it had ever been when I stopped for fuel just north of Columbus, OH. As I pulled into the motel lot last night in St. Louis and slowed enough I could hear that something was different. Whatever occurred happened while I was driving. MoGolf was at the same motel. He heard me from his room as I pulled into the parking space at 11 last night. This morning at 7 Oil Hammer couldn't believe this was the same car he had commented on being so quiet at the fest.

leicaman February 7th, 2009 19:16

Wow. I am sure glad you got it converted....in the very nick of time no less! My own Passat at 54k is just getting a little noisy (chain at idle) and thus I am getting a little nervous. I plan on having this baby fixed before 65k I hope.

IndigoBlueWagon February 7th, 2009 19:19

Lug_Nut, I'm happy that you (barely) averted disaster. Stranded beside the road in February isn't fun.

FWIW, I talked to my local dealer about getting the list of parts from this thread, and was told they are all readily available. Unfortunately their pricing isn't very attractive. I wonder what would happen if I actually ordered a set. I have a Canadian customer who's currently traveling in the US who is approaching 100K miles and wants to get this service done.

tomo366 February 7th, 2009 20:01

Damn! I am glad you made it OK Jon!! That is good to know! I hope you trip home is uneventful!!

Route 66 February 7th, 2009 21:48

What would the odds be that MoGolf would be in the same hotel, have a safe trip back home.

aja8888 February 7th, 2009 21:56

Got a call from Steve Glover (mtbr297) in Fort Worth a while ago. My Passat BS chain drive has been replaced with the helical gearing upgrade and the car is purring like a kitten. ;) He did a TB 100K kit and trans service also.

I'll be picking it up later this week as I have a short business trip to make Monday (Louisiana). I will post pictures of any parts that have significant damage or wear.

Edit to add pic:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...8/NewGears.jpg

Tony

leicaman February 8th, 2009 08:30

Looks like its going to last a long time. Say does anyone have an image of the oil pump chain at the same angle as aja8888's but with the stock gear setup, so I can add them to the document on how to tell the difference?

aja8888 February 8th, 2009 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by leicaman
Looks like its going to last a long time. Say does anyone have an image of the oil pump chain at the same angle as aja8888's but with the stock gear setup, so I can add them to the document on how to tell the difference?

You may want to check back in the thread(s) as OH or MOGolf may have posted one. I'll be putting up pics of the old parts mid next week.

Tony

oilhammer February 8th, 2009 09:07

Another one apart today...this one has a broken chain tensioner as well. 84k miles, looks like it has been broken for a while. :o

whitedog February 8th, 2009 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
Another one apart today...this one has a broken chain tensioner as well. 84k miles, looks like it has been broken for a while. :o

Broken in the same spot?

johnboy00 February 8th, 2009 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
Another one apart today...this one has a broken chain tensioner as well. 84k miles, looks like it has been broken for a while. :o

Time to get those complaints off to VW and NHTSA!

I'm glad everyone made it out there OK.

It looks like you have evidence that the parts can fail with the car still operating properly just waiting for the moment when BAM! .... all hell breaks loose.

sschnath February 8th, 2009 10:36

I've posted a couple of times (as recently as yesterday) that I didn't think I had enough data yet to justify spending the money on this fix proactively.

I think I got the justification I needed this morning when I started the car with the sunroof open (a very nice day for February in Maine) and heard a pretty loud rattle that subsequently disappeared after 20-30 seconds. I can't imagine it being anything other than chain related.

There was some discussion about posting some sound clips here and I wanted to make a comparison but I've done some searching and haven't found any. Are there any clips posted? I'd really like to verify it before I call the dealer tomorrow morning.

deming February 8th, 2009 10:41

Call the VW dealer? Uh HUH! :confused: :confused:

VeeDubTDI February 8th, 2009 10:46

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I don't think calling the dealer is going to do you any good.

The new gear upgrade looks great. Why couldn't they have just done that from the factory? ;)

aja8888 February 8th, 2009 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeeDubTDI
Hopefully I'm wrong, but I don't think calling the dealer is going to do you any good.

The new gear upgrade looks great. Why couldn't they have just done that from the factory? ;)

Point one: Right On!;)
Point two: You will not get an answer here or at VAG! :rolleyes:

DeliveryValve February 8th, 2009 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by leicaman
.....Say does anyone have an image of the oil pump chain at the same angle as aja8888's but with the stock gear setup, so I can add them to the document on how to tell the difference?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888

Here is one that has the chain sproket and without the oil pump from http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=223941

That I got from an even earlier thread...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliveryValve



The front of the engine with the right balance shaft end exposed.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/medium/BHW_004.jpg

.....


jennogle February 8th, 2009 11:06

Noise
 
I just wanted to make a comment about the noise difference pre- and post- BS upgrade. I think my car had been noisy for a very long time before the chain finally went, and I'd just gotten used to it, thinking it was an "older diesel" thing I'd have to live with.

It is SO much quieter now with the gears... For example, before, when my son and I would go to the local drive-in for a milkshake, the car was so loud I'd have to turn OFF my engine to place our order through the speaker, otherwise they'd get our order completely wrong. Last week we went back and I left the car on and placed our order without any problem hearing. My 7 year old son then turned and asked me if I still had the same car! ;)

Jenn

sschnath February 8th, 2009 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by deming
Call the VW dealer? Uh HUH! :confused: :confused:

Apparently I'm lucky because I'm situated half-way between two very competent dealers. When I first found out about this I discussed the possibility of having this done with one of them.

After they reviewed the situation, they are not only willing to do the work but are also willing to order the parts for me without any sort of payment up front due to the possibility of delays in getting them.

Their estimate was in line with the estimates that have been discussed here and they said the labor might even come down some. They'll also accept the 10% off service coupon I received from the other dealer so that'll save me a few dollars too.

For the sake of convenience I did try a third VW dealer for service once where I work in MA. I won't go back so I understand the comments.

sschnath February 8th, 2009 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennogle
... For example, before, when my son and I would go to the local drive-in for a milkshake, the car was so loud I'd have to turn OFF my engine to place our order through the speaker, otherwise they'd get our order completely wrong...
Jenn

That explains some of my recent experiences at Dunkin Donuts! Now that you mention it, I had noticed recently how loud it was at the drive through and also assumed that it was age related (the car, not me :)).

sschnath February 9th, 2009 07:19

Just ordered the BS parts. Will be interesting to see what they come back with for part availability.

Honeydew February 9th, 2009 08:22

Vibration comparison
 
If someone who plans to do the BS job has an iphone it would be interesting to see if you can pick up a meaningful difference in cabin vibration with the seismometer app. Film the same settings and location before and after.
Here it is in my car as an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZpM-ySrLjE

The engine is cold and iphone shows the uneven idle.

owr084 February 9th, 2009 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honeydew
If someone who plans to do the BS job has an iphone it would be interesting to see if you can pick up a meaningful difference in cabin vibration with the seismometer app. Film the same settings and location before and after.
Here it is in my car as an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZpM-ySrLjE

The engine is cold and iphone shows the uneven idle.

For the technologically challenged or those who refuse to drink Job's kool-aid ;) a cup of water placed on the dash can also serve as a visual vibration indicator. Just make sure to use the same amount of water and place it in the same position each time.

leicaman February 9th, 2009 10:26

How about a decibel meter comparison. That would be truly useful. I am sure it will note a difference!

Honeydew February 9th, 2009 10:33

there is a db meter app also:
http://app-store.appspot.com/?url=vi...73990%26mt%3D8

edit: This app shows 85.9 db at cold idle w/ iphone in same position as in the video.

vw4life February 9th, 2009 13:36

Go Jobs... ooops wrong forum..

aja8888 February 9th, 2009 15:49

if your headlights are not vibrating like they are going to fall out of the housings, then the BS job was a success.....;)

MOGolf February 10th, 2009 18:30

back on topic...

I've updated the PDF document linked in the first post.

Updates include using the T10392 puller, adding it to the SST pictures with a note of modifying it. The modification is evenly grinding the pulling arms to a 58mm spacing between opposite arms, with a little rounding to fit the holes of the sprocket.

There are a few additional tips added in the text too. Especially the one contributed by oilhammer to remember to remove the 3393 alignment pins. (Will he ever get his back?)

rydogg February 11th, 2009 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOGolf
back on topic...

I've updated the PDF document linked in the first post.

Excellent, great work MOGolf! All your (and OH's) hard work is very much appreciated. Cudos!!!

sschnath February 11th, 2009 14:17

I have to echo that all the work by Oilhammer, MOGolf and everyone else is greatly appreciated. I just talked to the dealer and the BS is in but he's waiting on some of the hardware. He said told me that the second the remaining parts are in he'll be calling me.

I also told him I'd be asking for all of the BS-related parts so I can document this which, of course, wasn't a problem. But I'm not going to write my letter to NHTSA and VW until after the work is done because I want to supply pictures should they help to tell the story. Either way I'll also be pointing them to this forum for supplemental data.

And even though I didn't buy the car at this particular dealer and my car is well out of warranty, he's going to set me up with a loaner car. I had expected to take a day or two off from work because of this, but he's going to set me up for a couple of days so I'm not inconvenienced and so they can make sure it's done right. I never would have thought to even ask for it.

Once the work is done I'll report back with the results and if I'm happy with the outcome I'll also offer up the dealer's name for those that are interested in traveling to southern Maine for a positive dealer experience. I'll also make sure VOA knows about the level of service from the dealer too as I know I wouldn't have received this kind of service from too many dealers. But, it doesn't mean anything if the work isn't done right so first things first.

Skidor February 11th, 2009 19:16

That is a good dealer. Is it in Saco?

I'm trying to plan out my BS replacement, I know I'll need at now at 98k. Let us know how it goes and what the dealer reports back to VW on what they find.

I'd love to tempt fate and drive back home (3200 miles) to drop off my car and go snowmobiling for a few days.

petersonpr February 16th, 2009 15:29

Do you think anything relating to this "flaw" would show up on an oil analysis? Mine has 55k on it and I am already thinking I should plan for this upgrade/retrofit. Any chance this has already been done to mine? It whines like a GM SB 350 with gears instead of timing chain. Just a thought. Engine code BHW 005 599

MOGolf February 16th, 2009 15:46

It could only have been done to your car if it was done after October 1 2008 when the parts superceded the originals for the BHW in North America. None of them came from the factory with the parts.

I would expect that the aluminum count would go up if the tensioner broke (it is made of non-magnetic material that looks like an Al alloy). Iron count would go up if teeth strip off the crank gear, but you'll know that immediately without an analysis.

maktas February 17th, 2009 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888
Got a call from Steve Glover (mtbr297) in Fort Worth a while ago. My Passat BS chain drive has been replaced with the helical gearing upgrade and the car is purring like a kitten. ;) He did a TB 100K kit and trans service also.

I'll be picking it up later this week as I have a short business trip to make Monday (Louisiana). I will post pictures of any parts that have significant damage or wear.

Edit to add pic:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...8/NewGears.jpg

Tony



This is a very nice pic of the module upgrade....

Technical question to MOgolf or Oilhammer;

How do you ensure the proper tooth mating of the large gear on the crankshaft to the first gear on the BS Module? I would think that the tolerances are pretty important at that interface and you are at the mercy of the stack-up from the BS module to the block.

oilhammer February 17th, 2009 10:18

It pushes in sideways, then gets tightened down. Then the coating on the idler gear wears away, setting the correct tolerance.

MOGolf February 17th, 2009 16:13

The crankshaft is locked at TDC.
The intermediate gear is loose, but meshed with the other gears.
The BS gear starts at locked position, but the lock is removed.
Then one pushs on the intermediate gear very firmly into that gap between the crank and BS gears. While doing that, its bolt is tightened.

As soon as the engine runs, the coating on the intermediate gear wears away. This gives the proper amount of gear lash (tolerance).

And, yes, the instructions do note that the BS module gear and shaft can get pushed slightly counterclockwise (as seen in that picture). That is expected and normal. It is a very small amount.

I think VW and/or their suppliers thought this out very carefully and had the computers simulate it considerably before they started manufacturing this design. It would appear that they gave it a lot more thought than the design it replaced. ;)

johnboy00 February 18th, 2009 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOGolf
.

I think VW and/or their suppliers thought this out very carefully and had the computers simulate it considerably before they started manufacturing this design. It would appear that they gave it a lot more thought than the design it replaced. ;)

New VW slogan: "We spend the time to get it right ... the second time":(

sschnath February 18th, 2009 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnboy00
New VW slogan: "We spend the time to get it right ... the second time":(

Or they could borrow my favorite line from the computer industry which has roots with Ford:

"Where quality is job 1.1"

oilhammer February 18th, 2009 09:15

Look on the bright side: at least we HAVE a fix! :)

whitedog February 18th, 2009 09:26

"Always look on the bright side of life".

Cue the closing scene of "Life of Brian".

KALaBenne February 18th, 2009 13:39

"He is NOT the Messiah, as a matter of fact he's been a very naughty boy!"

whitedog February 18th, 2009 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by KALaBenne
"He is NOT the Messiah, as a matter of fact he's been a very naughty boy!"

What's really funny is that I jut now realized the Oilhammer's name is Brian.

:p

BadgerFan February 18th, 2009 20:38

BS Mod Friday(2/20/09) morning on my 2005 b5
 
On the way to St. Louis to Oilhammers shop for the BS Mod thursday evening for a Friday morning appt with Oilhammer. I have an 05 TDI passat with 102k miles. Hopfully the OEM BS stays in tact for the 6hour drive.

Leicaman and I are meeting up and comparing noise levels this weekend after the mod.

Will post photos and discuss my experience when I get back:D

Wish me luck

Badgerfan

leicaman February 18th, 2009 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerFan
On the way to St. Louis to Oilhammers shop for the BS Mod thursday evening for a Friday morning appt with Oilhammer. I have an 05 TDI passat with 102k miles. Hopfully the OEM BS stays in tact for the 6hour drive.

Leicaman and I are meeting up and comparing noise levels this weekend after the mod.

Will post photos and discuss my experience when I get back:D

Wish me luck

Badgerfan

Travel Safe!

BadgerFan February 18th, 2009 20:46

Thanks
 
Leicaman, we will compare the post mod performance/noise to yours on Saturday.

Badgerfan

leicaman February 20th, 2009 16:19

Sounds like you made it there! Yeah! Oilhammer I am sure got it running perfectly spot on!

Joell February 21st, 2009 05:39

VW Part number for BS mod?
 
To those who have worked diligently in repairing and educating the TDI owners on the issue of BS modification I would like to ask if there is a VW Part number of some sort of numerical reference to the new replacement gear drive assembly. I have contacted two VW dealerships here in central PA and one major dealer in Maryland and all three deny any knowledge of the BS issue. They have absolutely no information in their computer of parts needed for the modification.
If any of the techs who are doing these modifications have an official VW parts number or list could you please post it?
Thank you!

MOGolf February 21st, 2009 05:46

Go to post #1, download the repair PDF. The parts listing is included.

aja8888 February 21st, 2009 07:46

Joell: fax the document MOGolf referenced to the VW parts department and MAYBE they will understand.:rolleyes:

pgoes February 21st, 2009 08:05

Dealers who have access to the European TSB's should be able to find the parts bulletin included in the PDF. My mechanic found it there, but not on the VWOA info.

tomo366 February 21st, 2009 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joell
To those who have worked diligently in repairing and educating the TDI owners on the issue of BS modification I would like to ask if there is a VW Part number of some sort of numerical reference to the new replacement gear drive assembly. I have contacted two VW dealerships here in central PA and one major dealer in Maryland and all three deny any knowledge of the BS issue. They have absolutely no information in their computer of parts needed for the modification.
If any of the techs who are doing these modifications have an official VW parts number or list could you please post it?
Thank you!

World Impex.com in Maryland sells the complete Kit.

http://www.worldimpex.com/search_by_...tegory_id=1570

Joell February 21st, 2009 13:14

Thanks once again for all the input. I pitty those BHW owners who are not members of this fine group.

Scott_DeWitt February 21st, 2009 13:30

The balance shaft modules ordered from Advanced Automotion are in stock and shipping on Monday. Thanks for your patronage.

MOGolf February 21st, 2009 13:34

The Impex informatoin was already noted in the first post. I have added a reference to Advanced Automation to that post.

rydogg February 23rd, 2009 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott_DeWitt
The balance shaft modules ordered from Advanced Automotion are in stock and shipping on Monday. Thanks for your patronage.

Scott,
I checked out your website but didn't see any BS assemblies available. Can you provide the link?

Scott_DeWitt February 23rd, 2009 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydogg
Scott,
I checked out your website but didn't see any BS assemblies available. Can you provide the link?

Please PM or email. I havn't had a chance to put it on the site yet.

leicaman February 26th, 2009 22:10

If you have broadband, please PM me as I have a 108 photo slide show of Oilhammer doing a BS gear conversion on BadgerFan's 05 TDI. I really don't want to post the link and I will send you a link if you PM me. The photos were taken by BadgerFan.

This set of images will really tell you that you don't want just anybody other than a first rate shop or guru doing this procedure!

TDIJetta99 February 27th, 2009 00:20

I took a bunch of pictures of one of the ones I did as well, but I haven't had the chance to edit and upload them just yet..

johnboy00 February 27th, 2009 08:18

Since there are a lot of parts being replaced in the BS module upgrade, is it a good idea to do the next oil change at a shorter interval, say 5,000 miles, instead of waiting a full 10,000 miles?

sschnath February 27th, 2009 08:42

Just got a welcome call from the dealer. All my parts are in. Taking the car in at 7:30 Monday morning for timing belt/BS/glow plugs. Expect to pick it up Tuesday night if all goes well.

I'm going to attempt to make an audio recording of the before (it's become quite loud - I can hear it in the cabin now with windows up) and after and I'll post it here, along with the pertinent cost data, sometime next week. Then I'll be sending my letters to NHTSA and VW after that.

I was told that if the glow plugs come out clean, they'll waive the labor on that part of the installation. Fingers crossed.

sschnath February 27th, 2009 11:05

After looking at Leicaman's photos (nice job on the slideshow, BTW), I'm going to make sure they check the motor mounts while they're in there.

Anyone have any idea what the life expectancy of the alternator is? With it all apart and with 200K on the car, I'm wondering if I should have that replaced as well. With what I'm spending, I'd rather wait another 100K if I could but will the alternator make it that far?

Sprocket February 27th, 2009 15:17

I'd have the alternator pulley changed out with the new design at this point.

leicaman February 27th, 2009 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by sschnath
After looking at Leicaman's photos (nice job on the slideshow, BTW), I'm going to make sure they check the motor mounts while they're in there.

Anyone have any idea what the life expectancy of the alternator is? With it all apart and with 200K on the car, I'm wondering if I should have that replaced as well. With what I'm spending, I'd rather wait another 100K if I could but will the alternator make it that far?

I want you to make sure to give credit to BadgerFan for the photos. I merely assembled them into a slide show. He should get credit because BadgerFan sports a lighter wallet!

BadgerFan February 27th, 2009 17:37

Great Job on the BS upgrade Slide Show
 
I want to thank oilhammer for the terrific work he did on my car. The photos I took during the upgrade and Leicaman edited so well show how intricate the process of upgrading the BS module was. Leicaman has done a nice job of recording mys passat engine after the upgrade and his passat with the OEM module(chain/tensioner). The wave files are posted in the forum if people would like to hear the difference . As far as the actual upgrade process I was amazed the level of detail in terms of the # of fasteners to keep track of of , Torque settings, tight fitting work areas, specialty tools, etc. I hope many of you can find the photos useful in your decision process of not only who you choose to do the upgrade but realize the skill set needed to do this job properly. Please PM me for any further details of my experience in the upgrade process. the members of this forum have been very helpful to me and I would be happy to help others.


regards


Badgerfan

sschnath February 27th, 2009 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by leicaman
I want you to make sure to give credit to BadgerFan for the photos. I merely assembled them into a slide show. He should get credit because BadgerFan sports a lighter wallet!

And so I shall. Excellent photos BadgerFan. It gave me a new appreciation for how much is going on underneath the hood, both while it's operating and when it's apart! :eek:

sschnath February 27th, 2009 18:06

Once the balance shaft work is complete, do I get to remove the "newbie" tag from my profile? :D

BadgerFan February 27th, 2009 18:16

Newbie no more?
 
Sschnath, someone will give me the "secret key" to unlocking the member moniker...:)

sschnath February 27th, 2009 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerFan
Sschnath, someone will give me the "secret key" to unlocking the member moniker...:)

It's funny that in the post I asked the question, it disappeared. Timing is everything. Or, was it the clicking of my heels together three times?

KALaBenne February 27th, 2009 18:38

It's automatic based on the number of posts you make.......that doesn't mean you should go around making all he posts you can think of. It'll go away eventually, and then you'll look at it and think 'I don't feel like a veteran.'

Gaggu P February 28th, 2009 06:57

hey guys can i get the links for the pictures and the before and after sound of the engine?

I don't know if my engine has this problem yet or not but sometimes after starting from the lights i get a whine type of noise but I don't think it sounds like marbles in blender like some people have described it??

volkswagendude February 28th, 2009 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaggu P
hey guys can i get the links for the pictures and the before and after sound of the engine?

I don't know if my engine has this problem yet or not but sometimes after starting from the lights i get a whine type of noise but I don't think it sounds like marbles in blender like some people have described it??

I could be wrong in what you just described, but it sounds like one of the reasons why I like turbo cars :D You're probably hearing the turbo spooling up the first second or so after you put your foot on the throttle. Our BHW's turbos and their setup are actually very quiet, and frankly, I wish I could hear them spool more like some other cars.

leicaman February 28th, 2009 14:58

Okay folks, my mrs (who runs the flickr account) said just post the link. I just want it to start easy. Now this may not be there forever might I note.

Enjoy:

First Photo gallery:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/amsun/s...49959267/

Second, the sounds...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=240026

leicaman

BadgerFan February 28th, 2009 15:41

Great Job on the BS upgrade Slide Show
 
Great Job Gary!!!

MOGolf February 28th, 2009 16:44

There is one less chain driven module on the road. An 05 Passat was prevented from experiencing failure. It was reported to be noisy, but I didn't get to hear it. TDIRacing had it draining oil before I got to it.

With him as an assistant, I replaced the module using the lift at World Impex late yesterday/this morning. Jeffery (employee of W.I.) also gave assistance (wonderful cleaning job on the oil pan and front seal flange).

There was nothing to note about the parts coming out of this car.

The same owner has an 04 Passat Wagon too. Its water pump impeller came loose on Friday leading to a high heat condition. What luck! I was there with all the tools at the ready for a timing belt/water pump replacement. This one has barely discernable chain noise. Mileage 66500.

sschnath February 28th, 2009 18:30

I've posted a WMV recording (audio only) of my engine noise prior to the BS replacement. It's in my personal album here:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=81553

There's about a 1.3 sec delay between the actual start of the engine and the rattling noise.

I'll post another clip when the work is done. If anyone thinks it would be useful, I can also post a clip where the pre-replacement sound is panned to the left side and post-replacement is panned to the right side so you can move the balance back and forth between channels while listening to one clip.

volkswagendude February 28th, 2009 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by sschnath
I've posted a WMV recording (audio only) of my engine noise prior to the BS replacement. It's in my personal album here:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=81553

There's about a 1.3 sec delay between the actual start of the engine and the rattling noise.

I'll post another clip when the work is done. If anyone thinks it would be useful, I can also post a clip where the pre-replacement sound is panned to the left side and post-replacement is panned to the right side so you can move the balance back and forth between channels while listening to one clip.

Pardon my stupidy, but why is it that whenever I click to watch your video, I get a "You must be a registered user to view images!" message? :confused: This has happened to me many times before with other users links, but now I need to confront this! :mad:
I would like to join in on the fun too you know...

aja8888 February 28th, 2009 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by volkswagendude
Pardon my stupidy, but why is it that whenever I click to watch your video, I get a "You must be a registered user to view images!" message? :confused: This has happened to me many times before with other users links, but now I need to confront this! :mad:
I would like to join in on the fun too you know...

When that happens, just log in again. It happens to me occasionally.

sschnath February 28th, 2009 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by volkswagendude
Pardon my stupidy, but why is it that whenever I click to watch your video, I get a "You must be a registered user to view images!" message? :confused: This has happened to me many times before with other users links, but now I need to confront this! :mad:
I would like to join in on the fun too you know...

:eek: Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger! :)

Happened to me too after I was checking the link. I don't have the Remember Me box checked off on my login. Maybe that's why?

CalgaryTDI March 5th, 2009 14:31

BS Covered by Powertrain Warranty
 
My local VW Dealer in NE Calgary has decided to cover the replacement of the BS under the 5yr powertrain warranty. The BS is making noise but is not broken. They are pulling the oilpan to verify but I am impressed as the dealer actually brought the issue up to me (not 2 mins before I was going to ask them however!).

whitedog March 5th, 2009 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalgaryTDI
My local VW Dealer in NE Calgary has decided to cover the replacement of the BS under the 5yr powertrain warranty. The BS is making noise but is not broken. They are pulling the oilpan to verify but I am impressed as the dealer actually brought the issue up to me (not 2 mins before I was going to ask them however!).

You would think that dealers techs would be looking for these in warranty to keep themselves working. Of course there is a balance point where they have to be sure that VW won't get out the microscope and look at them closer to be sure that they were in the failure mode when they were replaced, rather than replacing them proactively.

abctdi March 5th, 2009 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalgaryTDI
My local VW Dealer in NE Calgary has decided to cover the replacement of the BS under the 5yr powertrain warranty. The BS is making noise but is not broken. They are pulling the oilpan to verify but I am impressed as the dealer actually brought the issue up to me (not 2 mins before I was going to ask them however!).

How much noise and under what conditions?

oilhammer March 5th, 2009 15:47

Actually, many warranty repairs and recalls have truncated labor times, which most technicians do not like. Hard to earn a living on 70% of your normal income, or in some cases even less. :(

But, it is good that they are doing this, as this might actually make a bigger blip on VAG's radar if THEY were footing the bill.:cool:

volkswagendude March 5th, 2009 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalgaryTDI
My local VW Dealer in NE Calgary has decided to cover the replacement of the BS under the 5yr powertrain warranty. The BS is making noise but is not broken. They are pulling the oilpan to verify but I am impressed as the dealer actually brought the issue up to me (not 2 mins before I was going to ask them however!).

Ask them how many other Passat TDI's have they seen or even heard of having this problem, and ALSO ask them(pretend you know nothing) if this will eventually affect every single 2004-2005 Passat TDI. Please ask them, I'm curious to hear their response!

oilhammer March 5th, 2009 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by volkswagendude
Ask them how many other Passat TDI's have they seen or even heard of having this problem, and ALSO ask them(pretend you know nothing) if this will eventually affect every single 2004-2005 Passat TDI. Please ask them, I'm curious to hear their response!

I'm also curious if they know about VAG's gear replacement bits. :p

CalgaryTDI March 5th, 2009 16:52

BS Noise
 
In response to your questions, my Passat had been running rougher and I had complained of it being loud this summer, when they apparently reattached a hose off the turbo that was making the noise. It simply is noisier and shakes which is what they used to initially diagnose the issue. Much shakier and louder than my 2006 Jetta TDI, though I realize its a different engine.

The dealer definitely is aware of the issue, though they didn't tell me how often they have seen it so far. I definitely have seen a number of Passat TDIs running around Calgary but we have 3 VW dealers. I did get an email a few minutes ago from a member who apparently brought this issue to my dealership's attention a short while ago with help from this website, but only his labour is being covered (he is over 100kms on the 5 yr warranty however).

CalgaryTDI March 5th, 2009 16:56

BS Issue and Warranty
 
I also heard that VW warranty does not pay for diagnosis, only repair, which is the argument the dealer made to sell me a CoverageOne warranty over the VW extended warranty (I bought neither in the end, preferring to "self-insure").

I'm lucky this occurred before 100kms!:)

oilhammer March 5th, 2009 16:57

We hear about the total BHW figures for cars sold in North America, but are these more common proportionally in Canada like other TDIs?

Reason is, while I have serviced quite a few of these, most have come from great distances. There are only 4, including my own, that I see regularly in the STL area proper.

I know I read somewhere once that VW sales of TDIs in the US were less than 6%, but in Canada it was more like 30%. But the US total vehicle sales is likely exponentially higher than Canada's. So, are there actually MORE total TDIs in Canada, or is it just a higher percentage but fewer total cars. And, where does the BHW equipped Passat fit into this?

CalgaryTDI March 5th, 2009 18:34

BHW in Canada
 
VW definitely sells alot of TDIs in Canada, but primarily Jettas and Golfs. I understand from the dealers from when I was looking for this car that the Passat diesel was not nearly as common or as popular as the gas version. That said, I have seen at least 20 TDI Passats running around NW Calgary regularly, so out of a quarter of a million people in this quadrant I guess thats alot of BHWs!
Obviously by Canadian standards!:D

sschnath March 5th, 2009 18:48

Another BS conversion completed and ceramic glow plugs replaced with steel. :D

While I was on the fence initially, there were definitely problems brewing - it was only a matter of time. It's now very quiet and I'll be sleeping better, well, after I pay off the credit card bill. I feel extremely lucky that I was able to get 200K miles out of it (odometer read 200147 when it went in).

Also, originally I had planned to do the timing belt at 210K. Original job was at 105K so I figured I could use the same interval. But this belt had a crack in the back. I don't know if it would have made it to 210K. I'm glad I don't have to find out.

Unfortunately, a couple of things cropped up that drove up the cost of the job. Cooling system wouldn't hold pressure after the timing belt was done. The radiator had a pinhole leak. I'm not surprised, the front end of the car was full of sand. Lots of high speed driving on New England highways in the winter is not good for the front of the car. Being pelted by snow plows doesn't help. At first they thought it was a bad seal on the new water pump and they had to go back in to check it out. It was fine. Bottomline, a new radiator was required. I'm not sure I ever flushed the radiator and he said when they drained it it looked pretty bad so it was just a matter of time before it was going to totally fail.

The AC condenser is in pretty rough shape too but we didn't bother with that for now. Will see how that's functioning when the weather warms up but that will probably be a "wait till it dies" job.

Also, one of the tie rod ends was frozen. This was found while they were attempting a 4-wheel alignment. They didn't have alignment pins and I didn't want to wait. With all the potholes we've had this winter it was worth doing the alignment.

The glow plugs came out cleanly. Two of the four needed extra help during the removal so my chance of getting free labor on that part of the deal fell through.

Then there's the $500 deductible that I'll be out when they repair the bumper of the loaner that I crashed on Monday.

The service manager mentioned that the VW tech rep for this area happened to be in while the BS work was underway. Apparently he was "fascinated" by the work being done and made copies of some of the documentation I had supplied them with (Thanks again Oilhammer and MOGolf). And after all the letters to VW, he knew nothing about this prior to his visit. I hope he spreads the word within VW.

Here's the final total, parts and labor, for each part of the job:
-Timing belt, ribbed belts, water pump, tensioner, roller, coolant: $1024.68
-Install updated oil pump balance shaft module and gears: $2134.37
-Oil and filter change: $78.97
-Replace leaking radiator: $182.85 (was not charged any labor for this)
-4 wheel alignment: $99.99
-Install 4 steel glow plugs: $256.72
-Update ECM for new glow plugs: $138.00
-Replaced passenger side tie rod assembly: $379.42

Total labor: $1686.32
Total parts: 2608.68
Misc charge: 10.00 (not sure what this was for, will call in the a.m.)
Less coupon: (100.00)
Sales tax: 130.43
4 days loaner: NC
Wash/vac/detail: NC
Total: $4335.43

Add $500 deductible to fix the loaner and total cost of this job is $4835.43.

I had the work done at Prime VW in Saco, ME. They did a good job and I feel like they went the extra mile for me. They ordered the parts with no prepayment of any kind. They supplied me with a 2-day loaner that ended up being 4 days at no charge (was due to the snow storm on Monday, timing of the unplanned parts, and previously scheduled out of office time for the tech on Wed - they wanted to have the same tech finish the job).

Not only did I get the usual free car wash at the end of the job, they actually detailed the car for me at no charge. The car hasn't looked this good in a while!:cool:

Prime is willing to do more of these. I have no problem recommending them.

I have the parts and will attempt to take pictures in the next couple of weeks -- I haven't even looked at them yet. And I'll get the comparison sound file posted as well. There really is a big difference.

volkswagendude March 5th, 2009 18:56

In all seriousness, if I could look through the crystal ball and see that mine would last 200147 MILES like sschnath's :eek: , the drama would be reduced quite significantly. Perhaps even all of it! Of course the problem/paranoia with this type of failure, is the fact that one can lose his engine completely, seizing on the highway, etc...and surely this needs to be repeated again, just to remind myself....sigh..

whitedog March 5th, 2009 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
Actually, many warranty repairs and recalls have truncated labor times, which most technicians do not like. Hard to earn a living on 70% of your normal income, or in some cases even less. :(

But, it is good that they are doing this, as this might actually make a bigger blip on VAG's radar if THEY were footing the bill.:cool:

I see. That's the world of flat rate, I guess. The world I'm used to is very different. Warranty pays flat rate + most often and if the tech is certified, they pay for reasonable diagnostics.

oilhammer March 6th, 2009 04:35

Isn't it sad that VW has a guy in the area that STILL knew nothing of this problem??? :rolleyes:

Also kind of sad that a VW dealership did not have the subframe alignment pins. They should, that should have been a manditory SST sent to them, along with the VAS 1925 alignment bridge that I hope they used when they aligned your car. :o

I'd like to mention that the cost spent on that job is an extreme high example, most are much less. But the car is fixed, that is above all the most important part. :D

Now ready for another 200k miles! FWIW, I have driven no less than 4 B5s, of both VW and Audi branding, with over 300k miles, and they hold up quite well.

sschnath March 6th, 2009 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
I'd like to mention that the cost spent on that job is an extreme high example, most are much less. But the car is fixed, that is above all the most important part. :D

Now ready for another 200k miles! FWIW, I have driven no less than 4 B5s, of both VW and Audi branding, with over 300k miles, and they hold up quite well.

Yes, the cost was high and that's why I included the breakdown of each of the jobs. Many of those were items that are wear items that would have needed to be done regardless of the BS problem. For the mileage, I've had to put relatively little money into the car and I hope that continues. I thought the cost of the BS job itself was reasonable.

I also remarked to the them how solid the car still feels at 200K. Here's hoping for 400K or even 500K. Actually, I'd rather cut down on my annual mileage, but if I don't see that happening for a while so I hope the Passat sticks with me.


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