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-   -   BHW Balance Shaft Module replacement (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=233651)

dlai August 27th, 2009 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba
I live in Monterey CA. Can you give me more detailed info on who you used to do the BS work.

Thanks Brad

Brad:

There are very few upgraded cars running around in CA. There are two in Northern CA, but the work was not done in the bay area. They were both worked on in Harv's shop in Whittier, CA. Mine was done by Oilhammer and Bogstomper's was done by Harv. There are no shops in Northern CA that I'm aware of who has done this upgrade and I would not trust any shop to do this if they have not done it before. If I were you and you do not want to do the work yourself, your option is to do what I did and drive down to Whittier. Harv was trained by Oilhammer and is very well versed in doing the upgrade. He's done quite a few already and your car would in good hands.

Hope the info helps. Good Luck!

bogstomper August 28th, 2009 11:21

Yep, I am jumping on the bandwagon here, Harv did a great job, you won't be disappointed. My mpg has increased as well!! as Harv would say, 'later'!

PlaneCrazy August 28th, 2009 16:09

I noticed a slight improvement in MPG as well. Before the conversion I was having a hard time getting below 6.0 L/100 km at my usual 100 km/h cruise speed. Consumption had crept up in the last year. On my last road trip I got it back down to around 5.5 and on my commute into the city yesterday, I got 5.6. With MFD error factored in, that's almost exactly Transport Canada figures, maybe slightly better.

This is a very worthwhile upgrade, my previous skepticism notwithstanding!

Passat-powerstroke August 28th, 2009 17:54

"Guy was too scared to drive it in from Des Plaines, Il. I now know why."

Id prefer to call it too wise.:D Id read 59 pages of carnage, I didnt want to become a new thread.


Brian can I have the parts back, as many as possible?

Youve got a PM.

Lifeisfair August 29th, 2009 13:51

I have some good news. I just bought an 05 Passat tdi wagon, and was pretty scared after reading these threads. There was another 2 months left on the bumper to bumper, and I had a conversation with the head mechanic at the local VW dealership, who was doing the servicing. There was a pretty serious rattling going on when the car was at idle. I explained that I understood the engine had a fatal flaw, and if they determined that the noise was coming from the oil pump / balance shaft, that I would pay for the parts to upgrade the engine to the gear system. The GREAT news is that VW is going to convert my motor to the gear driven system under warranty at no cost. I am feeling pretty lucky, hopefully dodging the chain-driven bullet. So, if anyone still has their warranty, and the car sounds like marbles rolling around in there, have a conversation with your dealership's mechanic, as it sounds like they'll convert it for you. Thank you for posting all this information on here! Without the information posted in this forum, they may not have gone to bat for me with VW!

05 Passat Wagon TDI - 64k - Chainless - when it comes out of the shop!

Zambee500 August 30th, 2009 08:43

I wish the dealerships in the U.S. had the same customer service capability as the ones in Canada appear to have.

Re: the mpg after going geared. Mine seemed off 1 or 2 mpg, and I PM'ed with another person here who had the same experience. So it seems some do slightly better, some slightly worse, others probably the same. I suspect it might have to do with how the timing is set after the TB goes on that might affect it 1 or 2 mpg either way.

v8volvo August 30th, 2009 10:42

I have three in my shop right now and all are noisy. One has only 61k and is the worst of all (though it shows signs of neglect in various other ways too). Looks like I will become experienced in doing the balance shaft surgery procedure in the near future as well... if that is the case I should be able to provide help for those in the northwest region, where it seems there's a dead spot right now.

If there were a group of owners around here that were ready to go with BS swaps right away, I might be able to invest in the tools *before* one breaks and do a batch of them sooner rather than later -- if there is interest in that, let me know.

Volkstraktor August 30th, 2009 12:43

[quote=Zambee500]I wish the dealerships in the U.S. had the same customer service capability as the ones in Canada appear to have.

I don't think it's a matter of "can't". I think it's more a matter
of basic honesty and doing the right thing.:o

PlaneCrazy August 30th, 2009 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zambee500
I wish the dealerships in the U.S. had the same customer service capability as the ones in Canada appear to have.

Re: the mpg after going geared. Mine seemed off 1 or 2 mpg, and I PM'ed with another person here who had the same experience. So it seems some do slightly better, some slightly worse, others probably the same. I suspect it might have to do with how the timing is set after the TB goes on that might affect it 1 or 2 mpg either way.

You may be right about the timing as my consumption increased after the TB was done but decreased after the BS job. I had specifically asked the service manager to pay attention to the TB timing, and they seem to have got it right this time.

As for the CDN dealers; I think it's hit and miss up here as well, the local Toyota dealer for instance has a reputation for being a real crook, and some Montreal-area VW dealers have a bad rep. Mine is the only VW dealer in a small-sized city of about 100,000. I expect that dealers like that may need to be honest to stay in business. The other factor up here is the ratio of TDI to non-TDIs. Until 2007, TDI sales accounted for 50% of my dealer's business. TDIs are picking up again now that the CRs are here, I'd say right now his new car lot distribution of Jettas is perhaps 30% TDI, 60% 2.5 and 10% 2.0T, maybe even less for the 2.0T. So with such a high proportion of TDIs, they tend to be fairly experienced on them.

Zambee500 August 30th, 2009 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlaneCrazy
You may be right about the timing as my consumption increased after the TB was done but decreased after the BS job. I had specifically asked the service manager to pay attention to the TB timing, and they seem to have got it right this time.

Same thing with me. My mileage increased 1-2 mpg after the TB change last fall, and now after the BSM (and TB reinstall) it's back about the same as it was before the TB change. It was explained to me that, with at least some TDIs, the VW "spec" setting for timing is most efficient for emissions purposes rather than max fuel efficiency, and that if the timing is advanced (??) ever-so-slightly from VW spec that the mpg's will increase a couple or three mpg (presumably at the expense of emissions). There are tons of posts in one thread, I believe in the "fuel economy" section here, about ideal setting for timing for fuel efficiency. I will defer to the experts here, such as MOGolf and Oilhammer and others, but it could be that if one mechanic advanced (??) the timing a hair that your mpg might increase 1 or 2 mpg, but if the other mechanic used the VW spec the fuel efficiency might drop 1 or 2 mpg.

leicaman August 30th, 2009 20:24

With my passat, It seems that my car seems to get better economy at an indicated 73 miles per hour than it does at an indicated 65 MPH. It has been this way since I went from my Michelins to my Goodyear Eagle ResponsEdge tires. Today for example, I got 43mpg indicated average while driving at the higher speed. When I get an indicated 43 mpg, my real hand calculated average is around 40-41mpg. When I use a GPS, I discovered that at an indicated 60mph I acutally am traveling at 56mph.

PlaneCrazy August 31st, 2009 05:12

That GPS reading sounds about right. I've never used our GPS in our B5.5 mainly because it's an aviation GPS with road capability and I don't have a separate mount, I only have one car mount and it's in the 2.0T. At 100 km/h indicated, the 2.0T is actually only doing 95 km/h. Since I drive the speed limit, I set my cruise at 105 km/h on both the B5.5 and TDI; I'm assuming the B5.5 has the same error. MFD error is variable. The TDI's seems to be around 0.1-0.3 L/100 km. The 2.0T's is dead accurate, with only 0.2% error on average, which can be explained simply by measurement error.

0.5 off September 1st, 2009 11:13

I recently bought a 2005 Passat GLS TDI after carpooling with a friend who owned a Jetta TDI. He tipped me off to this site for great info and sure enough I found it, only I wish I had found it before I bought the car, which has 160 000km on it. Since clearly VW has no intention of issuing a recall for the BSM, I filed a vehicle complaint form with Transport Canada specifying the problem and the experiences of many others who I have read about here. It clearly is a safety issue and most owners will not be aware of the problem, though most probably have not put on enough km yet to have had a failure.
I need to get chainless as soon as possible, so if anyone has gone through the process in Saskatchewan and knows a reputible mechanic/dealer let me know. Thanks to CalgaryTDI for your info I might need to make the 6hr drive if I can't find what I need here. Thanks to Oilhammer and MOGolf (and others) for your information, I am at least educated enough now to tell the dealer what I need replaced and why.

oilhammer September 1st, 2009 11:26

Hello and welcome aboard! Do not fret, once done the car is otherwise still an excellent ride. :)

abctdi September 1st, 2009 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0.5 off
It clearly is a safety issue and most owners will not be aware of the problem, though most probably have not put on enough km yet to have had a failure.

Unfortuneately, safety is measured in death and disability, not to mention litigation. How many here became dead or disabled because of this?
I think the egr hesitation of yesteryear caused more actual angst and poopy pants than the chain has. Nevertheless, it should be geared.

maktas September 1st, 2009 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by abctdi
Unfortuneately, safety is measured in death and disability, not to mention litigation. How many here became dead or disabled because of this?
I think the egr hesitation of yesteryear caused more actual angst and poopy pants than the chain has. Nevertheless, it should be geared.

Yes, stats are working against us here, especially since only 20,000 of these were produced.... I think Toyota produces 20,000 Camrys in less than 3 months!!!
Bottom line is that VW doesn't want loyal customers, since they hung us BHW owners out to dry. How many BHW owers will buy a new VW in the future raise your hands!

blaz September 2nd, 2009 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by maktas
How many BHW owers will buy a new VW in the future raise your hands!

Well, I'm happy with my Passat despite the BS problem. And so far it has all just been routine maintenance. That extended warranty I bought hasn't been put into play, but it does give me the security to run this thing to 160K km before fixing the BS.

The only other car I drove to over 120K (Pontiac Montana) also had issues. They even had a class action suit for the bad gaskets, and I got $100 back (so little $ because they weren't a problem until over 140k).

Maybe there are other cars out there that don't fall apart as they get older, but I've never owned one. So, yes, I'd buy another VW. I'd buy another 2005 Passat too if the price was right.

PlaneCrazy September 2nd, 2009 06:04

Just make sure you document the BS issue properly at the dealer.

You're right about older cars falling apart, especially in the Quebec (and Ontario) climate. Our '98 Honda cost us about $6k to fix in 2006, when it had about the same mileage that our TDI has right now. No engine issues other than O2 sensor (a whopping $600 to fix!!!!) but lots of other crap. I got lucky on the BS thing with a 75% settlement from VW, so overall I'm not complaining too much.

The good news is that September is my last month of payments on the car, whoo hoo!

maktas September 2nd, 2009 06:05

I would consider buying a VW again if VW provided lifetime powertrain warranty or at least doubled their current warranty.

I have clear documentation (by way of 2 months of email correspondence) from my VW service manager basically telling me they have not heard of this BS issue, have no clue, VW will not do anything on their free will, oh by the way, "you can bring your car in but we will charge you for diagnosis and furthermore, if you want use to drop your lower engine to take a look, we will charge you for that if we don't see anything wrong"...

Why the f*^% would I buy a $30,000 car from these assoles and morons again???

PC.... consider yourself very lucky....

oilhammer September 2nd, 2009 06:13

It's a shame the cars themselves get tarnished due to company politics and poor dealer support. :(

maktas September 2nd, 2009 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
It's a shame the cars themselves get tarnished due to company politics and poor dealer support. :(

If I ever find the guy(s) who was responsible for this BHW design, I may punch him out! We can settle this engineer to "german engineer" ;)

right now I am dealing with a noise issue on a seat mechanism design (my work).... only happens at 6-19 Hz, and is very very minor....but I have to deal with it an fix it. Why didn't these VW morons in Wolfsburg deal with something that has cost all of us, made our vehicles sound like a kitchen blender and put us at risk of doing massive damage to the engine if the chain fails?? This issue has wiped out all the fuel savings I expect for the life of the vehicle!! So what's the point of having a TDI if we have to deal with bad design and sh|ty service?

PlaneCrazy September 2nd, 2009 07:17

I've got to admit the BHW front end design is not too brilliant. No doubt a chain drive could have been made to work OK, if it was properly designed: suitably durable components, etc.

But when I saw that tensioner casting with my own eyes after it was surgically extracted from my vehicle, I immediately understood why the BS module is such an issue with the BHW. Way too flimsy in my eyes.

But I'm with Oil. Otherwise the car is a brilliant piece of work. Ours, at 183,000 km, is still like driving a bank vault. I thought I heard a new rattle on the weekend... the car doesn't have any... and it turned out to be my wife's stethoscope lying on the back seat and rattling against a seat belt buckle.

The only other design issue I have with it is the front suspension design, something they fixed on the B6 (i.e. made cheaper). It's very complex and expensive to fix after 100,000 miles of beating against Quebec roads.

With the BS thing fixed, I'm hoping for at least 300k km out of it before rust claims it, and if possible, 500k. It all depends on how much we drive it!

abctdi September 2nd, 2009 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by maktas
If I ever find the guy(s) who was responsible for this BHW design, I may punch him out! We can settle this engineer to "german engineer" ;)

right now I am dealing with a noise issue on a seat mechanism design (my work).... only happens at 6-19 Hz, and is very very minor....but I have to deal with it an fix it. Why didn't these VW morons in Wolfsburg deal with something that has cost all of us, made our vehicles sound like a kitchen blender and put us at risk of doing massive damage to the engine if the chain fails?? This issue has wiped out all the fuel savings I expect for the life of the vehicle!! So what's the point of having a TDI if we have to deal with bad design and sh|ty service?

Don't hold back your feelings on our account...

maktas September 2nd, 2009 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlaneCrazy
But I'm with Oil. Otherwise the car is a brilliant piece of work. Ours, at 183,000 km, is still like driving a bank vault.

Well my dad's old 1990 Olds w/ 3800 V6 went 500,000 KMs with only tune ups, routinely got mid to upper 20's fuel economy on the hwy. Our old old 1986 Surbaru GL sedan went 350,000 KMs before being rear ended and totaled.... the engine (1.6L I-4) was still running like clockwork, again, no major issues prior. My dad's current 2002 Buick with the same GM 3800 V6 is on track to do the same.

After the BS issue, 2 rack and pinons early on, and possible worn out cams in the future...I can't really justify my B5.5 being "brilliant" when I compare to GM. Even Brandon in Toronto who did my BS module has doubts about these PD engines in general compared to VE engines (no doubt because of what he sees in his shop)

IMO GM's 3800 V6 is brilliant.

maktas September 2nd, 2009 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by abctdi
Don't hold back your feelings on our account...

I would punch him out after I force him into giving me $3500 CDN (or the equivilent in euros ;) )

v8volvo September 2nd, 2009 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by maktas
IMO GM's 3800 V6 is brilliant.

Just watch out for that plastic intake manifold warping and hydrolocking the engine... :eek:

oilhammer September 2nd, 2009 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8volvo
Just watch out for that plastic intake manifold warping and hydrolocking the engine... :eek:

That's only half of it. ;)

Hehe, lets applaud mediocrity... :rolleyes:

GM bandaided that poor engine for 20 years beyond what its lifecycle should have been simply because they could not come up with anything better. And they even sold that engine to AMC then bought it back! LOL!

1960's technology!!! Yeah, I guess if it works, it works. Not my cup of tea. Seen plenty of 'em with problems, too. No longer in production. I guess even GM finally had to come to grips with the fact that not everyone wanted the same thing their father had. :p

Of course, you Canadians prolly do not have as much of a problem with GM as us poor folks that watched our tax dollars go to bailing the SOBs out, only to watch them go down in flames in bankruptcy anyways a couple months later. What a waste.

blaz September 2nd, 2009 10:59

Well, maktas, you've definitely had better luck with high mileage cars than I have.

But I do agree with you about the VW dealerships. There are two in Toronto that I'll never go to again, but luckily we have Brandon (a good independent mechanic) there. And there is the Orillia dealership that, so far, has been reasonable. And I've heard of a few others in the Ontario forum.

But I've had similar dealership problems with my GM and Chrysler cars. Eventually I found a GM dealer in Huntsville who didn't treat me like dirt. So I'm not so sure that it's strictly a VW problem.

PlaneCrazy September 2nd, 2009 11:43

My worst ever dealership problem was with a GM dealer. A real joke and the car was even worse. Fortunately I had the pleasure of buying a brand-new Honda from the same showroom about 13 years later. The GM dealer went belly-up and the local Honda dealer bought the building to have bigger digs as Honda sales were increasing and the original dealership had become too small. Talk about poetic justice :D

abctdi September 2nd, 2009 12:17

X car manufacture/dealer sucks...

maktas September 2nd, 2009 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
That's only half of it. ;)

Hehe, lets applaud mediocrity... :rolleyes:

GM bandaided that poor engine for 20 years beyond what its lifecycle should have been simply because they could not come up with anything better. And they even sold that engine to AMC then bought it back! LOL!

1960's technology!!! Yeah, I guess if it works, it works. Not my cup of tea. Seen plenty of 'em with problems, too. No longer in production. I guess even GM finally had to come to grips with the fact that not everyone wanted the same thing their father had. :p

OH... can you retrofit a 3800 V6 in my B5.5?? :D ...seriously

oilhammer September 2nd, 2009 12:31

LOL..... :p

maktas September 2nd, 2009 12:48

Guys... don't get me wrong, I am not very anti-VW (just slightly now ;) ), I grew up driving 2 VW rabbit non-turbo diesels, my dad destroyed one by over-torquing the cylinder head, cracked it, and we ended up selling the other one with 1/2 million KMs on it. These engines were good...why? because it was simple and it worked (just like the 3800 ;) )


I am royally pissed off at primarily 2 things on my $30,000 CDN BHW B5.5; 1) the fact this engine was released to production with a fundemetal engine design problem 2) VW sticking their head in the sand and sticking us with the bill to fix it.

These 2 facts have forced me to deal with a crooked extended warranty company, a lawyer, a useless, pathetic stealership with a service dept that has no clue....

So I blame the ROOT CAUSE of this fiasco, because we all know how insurance companies, dealers and lawyers behave!

Benjamin September 2nd, 2009 12:57

The 3800's were better then the 3100/3400's from that same era. When I worked in the small independant shop out here I saw many intake gaskets from those engines. The worst were the minvans as with tight fit and design was a total pain to work on. My wife's Passat will probably be the only PD engine I will own if I can help it. Since I don't drive much right now I know I will be waiting to see how the CR engine goes.
Another thing that I am watching is the new toureg as my wife loves how it looks and already has her heart set on that being her next vehicle in a few years.


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