No Power After BEW Head Replacement

Joined
May 8, 2009
Location
Rockland, Maine
TDI
1999.5 Jetta
Hi Everyone,
As the title says and I'm running out of Ideas.
I replaced a cylinder head for a friend after a Prothe TB failure (I know)
I had Frank06 rebuild the damaged one.
On initial start up the torsion value was -0.5. I adjusted it to +0.5.
Test drive, Engine starts right up, runs smoothly right through RPMs and no hesitation, lurching, but no power at all.

Turbo I say.
Remove exhaust header turbo spins freely.
Assistant (poor owner) starts car and I observe the VNT actuator retract fully and with no load acceleration (on engine stands) actuator moving accordingly.

Pressure test the intake system. Find two holes in intercooler caused by ducting cowl on front face chafing through. These two holes are filled with JB weld whilst new IC is on order.
Re test intake system. No leaks

Tested MAF using VAG-COM. Specified and actual V-close and moving in tandem.

Tested MAP, Results similar to above.

Vag-com says there is 2100 mbar of boost pressure. Is this a theoretical value, I'm not aware of a boost pressure sensor?
You can hear the turbo spooling.

If I connect vacuum pump to vacuum system at the junction on the line to brake actuator, I can draw a vacuum and it will take 15 seconds to leak down.

CEL light does not come on.

As I said, It starts right up and runs smoothly but is with out any power.
If I could not hear the turbo spooling that would be my first guess, but I can and I've seen the actuator actuating.
My second guess is one of fuel delivery. There's enough hot gas to spool the turbo though perhaps a VNT requires very little to get it turning. I also have no experience with this car and therefore dont know how it normally sounds.

Anyway, I would really appreciate any suggestions as to how I might diagnose this further,
Guy
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
There is an electric in-tank fuel lift pump. The originals were VERY failure prone. Some cars run fine without them, some run poorley (low power) and some do not run at all. (There is also a fuel feed pump on the cylinder head). Breaking open the fuel circuit for the cylinder head replacement may have broken the prime and caused issues with a failed lift pump.

To check, lift up the right rear seat bottom so you can hear the pump better and listen as you turn the key to "ON" (don't engage the starter). If you hear the pump run for a second or two, the pump is OK. It only runs briefly, unless the engine starts. Most likely the pump is bad if there is no sound. Verify by seeing if there is 12 volts, for a second or two as the key is turned on, at the two bigger wire connections in the pump plug. The new pump is available from here:

http://idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=585

If that checks out, I would replace the fuel filter and verify that there are no air leaks in the fuel system (the thermostatic Tee on the fuel filter is the weakest link, I believe.

--Nate.
 

halocline

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Location
San Antonio
TDI
04 Jetta Wagon
If this is a BEW with an original KP39, I believe a vacuum leak would cause overboost, not no boost. At least that's what I've been told, and I did have a vacuum leak with a broken EGR cooler actuator, my car would overboost and go into limp mode. Replaced the actuator, everything worked great.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
If this is a BEW with an original KP39, I believe a vacuum leak would cause overboost, not no boost. At least that's what I've been told, and I did have a vacuum leak with a broken EGR cooler actuator, my car would overboost and go into limp mode. Replaced the actuator, everything worked great.
Incorrect.

Yes, check that pump. pull up the rear seat and turn the key on(don't start), you should be able to hear it run.

Is it smoking when you get on it? Any other intercooler piping leaks?
Try disconnecting the MAF and do a run.

Log channel 1 and 11 and post that up.
 
Joined
May 8, 2009
Location
Rockland, Maine
TDI
1999.5 Jetta
Logging data and posting it here is beyond my capability and capacity.
We are a Mac family. The vag-com is running on an old pc tower though I can borrow a pc tablet. Then I would have to learn how to log, convert, post and what ever. Its bad enough typing with two fingers!

I can how ever tell what I read in channels 1 and 11.
Channel 11 shows boost, specified and actual rise and fall in tandem with a no load max 0f around 2000 mbar (atmospheric 989 mbar)
Channel 1 is about fuel delivery amount and if you could tell me what to look for, load or no load, I can relay that info.

I have cycled the n75 with the vag-com and get three full VNT actuations with engine off. I think this system is working properly.

I have checked the fuel lift pump and I get an audible conformation that its running.

I have tried running the car with the MAF disconnected and it has even less power. I think the MAF system is working properly (also tested with vag-com)

Car does not make any smoke. Tried various throttle/RPM combinations on a hill.

I mentioned the IC issue in my first post. The new one arrived today and I installed it. Pressure tested system to 10lbs with compressor. On next test drive popped one of the pipe connectors.
I relate this to suggest the turbo is producing boost (not my incompetence!)

My feeling is that not enough fuel is being injected although enough is to spool the turbo.
Vag-com channel 1 is where this information is given?

Anyway, what do you think. Any ideas
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Check the output of the fuel pump. Just because it makes noise, doesn't mean that it's pumping. See my signature for a link to testing the fuel system.
 
Joined
May 8, 2009
Location
Rockland, Maine
TDI
1999.5 Jetta
Thanks for the replies. Ive had a day of family commitments. Hopefully I can take some time tomorrow.
I'll disconnect the fuel "in" to the filter, extend it into measuring cup and see what comes out and how much over time.
Will report back,
Guy
 
Joined
May 8, 2009
Location
Rockland, Maine
TDI
1999.5 Jetta
Ok,
Using the info in Whitedogs signature I did the following;

Lift pump tests;
Ignition key cycle, approx 50cc of fuel.
Flow per min, 2250cc (Specified 3000cc)

Tandem pump tests;
Wear test, 160cc per min (specified 25cc or less)
Low speed flow, 1000cc per min (specified 1.1-1.5cc per min)

I had no pressure gauge or fittings available to do pressure tests.

All these values suggest both the lift and tandem pumps are worn (100,000 miles)

I also made a test drive with the lift pump both connected and disconnected (electrically) There was no discernible difference all the way to 4500rpm

I think I ought to pressure test the tandem pump.
I can determine the size of the banjo fitting from removing the test port bolt and perhaps McMaster Carr will have one?
 
Joined
May 8, 2009
Location
Rockland, Maine
TDI
1999.5 Jetta
JB05,
About 50 miles. I know to whom you refer and we have spoken on the phone. He is scratching his head. When I suggested I might bring it to him he exclaimed "No, don't!"
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
So Frank installed the valves, lifters, cam bearings, cam, injectors, injector seals, and rockers? He shipped you a ready to install head?
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
His logs look good to me.



Can you post up a short video of it, how its not running properly?
 
Joined
May 8, 2009
Location
Rockland, Maine
TDI
1999.5 Jetta
Thanks JFettig for posting my logs on the forum.
I'm rather disappointed there is nothing wrong expressed in these plots.
I could post a video.

Are the injection quantity and duration values given in the log actual amounts or are they theoretical ie the ECU for a given set of parameters says inject "x" amount for "y" time, which is what we see logged, but due to some fault in the fuel delivery system or the injectors, some other amount is actually injected?

Is it possible that for some reason the injectors would inject an amount other than what the ECU calls for?
 
Joined
May 8, 2009
Location
Rockland, Maine
TDI
1999.5 Jetta
Revisiting post #10 where I tested the Tandem pump.

I found the necessary banjo fitting, hose and gauge to measure tandem pump pressure.
With the engine at 85* and at idle I had 40lbs.
Increasing the rpm the pressure would rise to 80lbs (the gauges limit) and beyond by 1100 rpm (Bentley says 51lbs @ 1500 rpm)
Doubting the accuracy of the borrowed gauge, I went to Napa and bought the only gauge available.
Doubting the accuracy of the new gauge, it never the less showed a surge in pressure way beyond the specs.
 
Joined
May 8, 2009
Location
Rockland, Maine
TDI
1999.5 Jetta
Well,
Car is still not running properly.
Any one care to comment on this idea?
That the ECU, having been disconected from the battery for three weeks,
due to electrical discharge reverted to some form of basic function.
Possible?
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
I think that there is a restriction in the return designed to maintain a certain pressure in the head rail, but I don't know if it being restricted would cause your problem.
 

AARodriguez Corp.

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Location
South East USA
TDI
2009 JSW and Golf 2004 TDI
Hook your vacuum pump up to the small outlet on the brake booser while the car is running, how much vac is the pump drawing at idle?
 
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