New project: Golf Mk4 PD TDI 4motion 6-speed

Fab176

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Location
Minden, Germany
TDI
Golf Mk4 4motion PD+++
PD TDI 4WD w/ stroker and BW S200V

Hi!

After my engine in my van (Ford Galaxy) broke, I decided I got to get rid of that van and restart. So this time I focused on a descent basis for a powerful engine. Only choice is 4motion, of course - and a lightweight chassis. So I found a nice 2-door Golf Mk4 (2002) 4motion with a PD115 engine. It also has a 6-speed gearbox, so just little mods required there.

My "old" engine is currently being rebuilt - it gets new pistons (VW Crafter, machined), a new cam shaft (dbilas), bigger exh valves (34mm), BigBore PDE (8.5mm or 9mm). And if I find a GTB2260VK at a reasonable price, it'll get a new turbo as well. This package will move into the Golf.

Then there is my Brembo-6-piston brake - I will get some adaptors so I can fit the calipers to the Golf. It will run 334x28mm rotors (probably), but it requires some more fine tuning. Then I want to fit my VW Interlagos wheels (8x18, 41mm offset).

With all this done, I think that Golf will be a little, nice driving machine. I paid it today and probably will have it at my place middle of next week (when registration etc. is done). I'll post a pic soon.

Greetz,

Fabian
 
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glitdi

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Dec 28, 2009
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West Coast Canada
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Tdi asv motor in a mk3 golf, om642 in a wk jeep
You Europeans and you all wheel drive diesels!!!!
Nice project looking forward to the pictures and details.
 

VWBeamer

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Jan 1, 2009
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GA
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2004 Jetta Wagon
I would love to have something like that, all we get is 2 wheel drive and PD100...
 

TheoSweden

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Jun 10, 2006
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Uppsala, Sweden
TDI
A3Q,A4Q, Passat Biturbo TDI
You will have a fun car:) But one thing is for sure, it is far from a lightweight car. My audi is 1460kg after my engine mods, some lightning inside and half tank of fuel.
The only "problem" is to build a good downpipe, but I'm sure you know that already.

Good luck from Sweden!

PS. Please show us much pictures during the build;)
 

ryanp

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Jun 22, 2008
Location
Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
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Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
Wish we got 4wd in the UK as well - Just nothing really here in TDI form.
PD130 A3 in Mk4 chassis, and Mk5 chassis gives many options, Golf or A3 4 motion/quattro!!

Fabian, Great project, the little arosa sounded good but 4WD is a must at 300hp!!
 

chapelhill

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Aug 19, 2005
Location
Scotland
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03 Ibiza pd13- 2260vk Turbo etc.., Merc E280cdi
Fabian.
Where are you sourcing you exhaust valves, I am starting to do a PD head this weekend and was going to opt for larger valves, but search did not find anything but custom options.

Looks like you have maybe opened up a can of worms on injector selection with BigBore PDE element maybe stretching the Bosio race 1043 into Firrad territory. Would you still opt for the Bosio if you did not already have the nozzles? I had convinced myself that if I was still not happy with PD150 injectors that Firad was the only way to go due to opening duration.
 

Fab176

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Location
Minden, Germany
TDI
Golf Mk4 4motion PD+++
Wow, what a feedback...

@glitdi: As soon as the show starts, more pictures will follow ;)

@VWBeamer, devonutopia, Diesel_Head: Seriously, you have my deepest sympathy...

@Bobby_Singh: I will keep my Sachs Performance SMF and the clutch I used in the Galaxy. AFAIK the Golf has a 240mm flywheel for PD TDI and 4motion combination

@TheoSweden: Compared to that heavy Galaxy-brick, the Golf is a REAL lightweight ;) Pics will follow soon; DP etc. I will probably create together with Ruben

@ryanp: Agree - the Arosa would be fun, but the mods required to make it 4WD would be way too expensive. I drove one Arosa just recently and those little cars are pretty lightweight on the rear axis (my impression). That would certainly change when 4motion is added and some other weight-reducing mods were taken, but using that Golf is the easier way.

@chapelhill: The exh valves will be from Mahle; I currently try to get them via VW. If this won't work, I might contact another supplier I know.
I am a "believer" in Bosio-nozzles, so that's why I stick with them. Actually, I haven't heard anything about Firad-nozzles "in real life", but I am always open to new inputs. What problems did you have with opening duration? What effects did it show?

---------------------
This is a first picture of my "new toy":


And the best thing (sorry for bad quality):


Already found a way to put my brakes on (as I wrote before). I might use R32 brakes for the rear as well; can get a complete set incl. rotors for 300 Euro. Another thing I need to get is the R32 DSG airbox, but this seems to be only a minor mod. In order to put my VW Interlagos 18"s on, I need to use adaptor wheel spacers that will be manufactured by a friend - looking forward to see those beauties on my Golf ;)

Greetz,

Fabian
 

im570rm

Veteran Member
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Jul 11, 2005
Location
Romania
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Audi a6 avant 2.5 tdi quattro
yeah making the downpipe for this car is a pia but it can be done even with your current turbo or with bigger turbo
 

chapelhill

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Aug 19, 2005
Location
Scotland
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03 Ibiza pd13- 2260vk Turbo etc.., Merc E280cdi
Wow, what a feedback...

@chapelhill: The exh valves will be from Mahle; I currently try to get them via VW. If this won't work, I might contact another supplier I know.
I am a "believer" in Bosio-nozzles, so that's why I stick with them. Actually, I haven't heard anything about Firad-nozzles "in real life", but I am always open to new inputs. What problems did you have with opening duration? What effects did it show?
Greetz,
Fabian
Sorry Fabian I did not explain very well, I have not upgraded my injectors yet, I am tring to maximise the rest of the set up before I decide on the injectors as they will only really add over 3.5k rpm if engine is limited to 550Nm which is a sensible objective.

The issue is that the Bosio race injectors may be using an overly large injection window at high rpm wheras Firad have claimed significantly higher volumes which can therefore use relatively standard injection window, and as no-one yet has managed to measure the peak combustion pressures versus angle with these sort of durations we are not sure what is going on. I know motor manufactuers are continuously changing nozzle size smaller, but we have different objectives, and my objective is maximum power whilst minimising risk to engine which instinct says would be through shorter injector period, but there are too many variables to know without measurements.

There are just too many stories and not enough truths.

Don't want to Hijack you thread, look forward to seeing the development as it goes forward.
 

bhodgkiss

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Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Location
Banbury, UK
TDI
AFN Passat Wagon
we do get the Passat b5.5 in 4motion form, 1.9tdi PD130 or 2.5tdi 163bhp in the uk
Heavier car to start with though....
 

TheoSweden

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Jun 10, 2006
Location
Uppsala, Sweden
TDI
A3Q,A4Q, Passat Biturbo TDI
yeah making the downpipe for this car is a pia but it can be done even with your current turbo or with bigger turbo
Everything can be done:) This is one way of doing it. I'm sure Ruben and Fabian can make it much nicer!



Damn I miss building a car, I want to do it again, much better! :)
 
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TheoSweden

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Location
Uppsala, Sweden
TDI
A3Q,A4Q, Passat Biturbo TDI
With 18x8 and ET41 you must be able to use ~25mm spacers. I had around ET 20 and it worked great, but probably better handling with stock S3 wheels tough. But the looks was great:) Your fenders are wider also:)
I have a set of 25mm billet alu spacers you can buy cheap if you like, with bults.
 
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NoJoke

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
Hi!

After my engine in my van (Ford Galaxy) broke, I decided I got to get rid of that van and restart. ......

I liked that van(what a sleeper) I'm sorry for your misfortune...please give us a damage report on what was found
 

Fab176

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Location
Minden, Germany
TDI
Golf Mk4 4motion PD+++
@chapelhill: We'll discuss that via PM or eMail ;)

@TheoSweden: I got to use spacers that adapt from 5/100 to 5/112. I will get a set soon to test fit the wheels. And I have to put my Brembos on to check what size the spacers have to have in the end. But thanks anyway!

I'm not so much worried about the downpipe - Ruben built my last one and it is just perfect. As I wrote in some other post, he's a real artist with the welding gear! I had the manifold he made in my hands when I disassembled the engine and everything he welded still looks perfect.

@NoJoke: I will try to make my Golf a sleeper as well. Ok, the color is not so much of a sleeper's color, but I want the Golf to look like everything is OEM. That's why I really need to fit the VW Interlagos wheels... ;)
 

TheoSweden

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Location
Uppsala, Sweden
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A3Q,A4Q, Passat Biturbo TDI
@TheoSweden: I got to use spacers that adapt from 5/100 to 5/112. I will get a set soon to test fit the wheels. And I have to put my Brembos on to check what size the spacers have to have in the end. But thanks anyway!

I'm not so much worried about the downpipe - Ruben built my last one and it is just perfect. As I wrote in some other post, he's a real artist with the welding gear! I had the manifold he made in my hands when I disassembled the engine and everything he welded still looks perfect.
Ahh ofcourse they are 5x112...

The welding is not a problem with the downpipe. Its more that you probably need to test fit it in the right position 1000 times.
I had to cut some of the subframe also and now I have around 1cm space in all directions with my 3" pipe. And It is realy necessary to have a stiff dogbone or else it will touch the firewall it you do a fast launch for example. I can just hope that its more space in Golfs than A3s...

Try to put the turbo a little to one side so that you get more DP space, I didnt and that made it much harder.

//Theo
 
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Fab176

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Location
Minden, Germany
TDI
Golf Mk4 4motion PD+++
Hi!

Little progress made with my Mk4 - I got the VW Interlagos installed with some 15mm per wheel adaptor spacers from 5/112 to 5/100



Also put my Mk5 R32 steering wheel in:



Nothing done so far to the engine; I am currently collecting parts and try to find the ideal turbo for my needs. But purchased a nice PD150 intake; looks lovely with the EGR-delete pipe:



And I am working on adapting my Brembo 6-pot calipers to the Golf. I purchased a set of wheel bearing housings and test-fitted an adaptor for the calipers. As you can see, the bloody 288mm rotor looks like a toy :) I am going for the OEM 334x32 R32 rotors, though...



The adaptor locate the caliper a little too far off the center, so I got a set of new adaptors that place the caliper just in the perfect location to fit the R32 rotors. I didn't take pictures yet, but more to follow.

About the turbo: I have been chatting with Ruben a lot about a possible nice turbo for my engine. I have a pretty good chance to get an ARL bottom end, so I want to use this instead of a PD115 bottom end. GOing for Panchi rods and ARP bolt, of course. I got my cam grinded by Dbilas already and directly sent it to a company named "Kexel" here in Germany for DLC-coating. They did a good job and already sent the cam back to me. My modified Crafter pistons are in the final stage of modification; the omega bowl gets re-shaped to PD-style omega bowl and the oil squirter holes a being re-located to use OEM oil squirters in a 4-cyl TDI crank case. My PD elements have already been upgraded to BigBore PDE; for the first with 8.5mm pistons "only" ;) But I can go for 9mm in case i need it. They will run with race1043 nozzles.

So there is still the open question about the turbo... As insane as it sounds, I think a GTB2260VK will not fulfill my needs. I searched the forum already for some nice, bigger VNT turbo, but didn't really succeed. Modifying a GTB2260 is one option or going for a HINO truck VNT turbo is another. But I can't find a single HINO turbo here in Germany :(

Let me hear your ideas about the engine re-build!

Greetz,

Fabian
 

Alcaid

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Sep 5, 2006
Location
Norway
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See signature
Perfect car for you powerplant! :) I had a '02 PD150 4Motion Golf earlier but i would for sure NOT call it lightweigt. A really stiff rear sway bar and the car starts acting like a "real" 4wd car on snow ;)
 

GiGGer

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Location
Quebec
TDI
GTI TDI 130
Nice project...exactly what I wish I would have built...but no 4motion here but the R32...

R32 brakes are awesome. Very heat resistant and fits on 17" Longbeach. Love them with my PD130, braking was a must.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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May 1, 1999
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Canada
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Ich sehe Tempo Tücher :D

Shadowmaker might be able to hook you up with a turbo off a Hino truck, otherwise try Turbomaster in Spain. As you go to bigger turbos in a single stage, spool up becomes a bigger issue, and the newer generation turbos make a huge difference. Make your selection carefully.

I don't think the cold side of a Hino turbo supports the power level you are targeting. Maybe you might also look outside of Garrett turbos and consider a Holset unit. A good rule of thumb for an initial turbo selection in the absence of maps is to look at the power output of the OEM engine from which the turbocharger comes. From this page, the GT2563VK is used in a Hino application that develops only 150 HP and nothing in Hino's line in that list produces over 221 HP -- that's using a GT3576KL(!) If an engine only develops, say, 150 HP, don't dream of using the same turbocharger to get over 300.
 

Rub87

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Dec 10, 2006
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Belgium
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Ibiza '99 90HP
the problem we are facing is that there seems to be a large gap between a 2260vk and the next vgt (gt30v or gt35v hotside) or a he341ve.. to solve this gap I was thinking about using a gt28r crhra and turbine wheel in a vgt hotside with a suitable compressor.. it will be alot of custum work, but fabain has some connections with a cnc workshop
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
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Location
Canada
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TDI
Forget pretty much EVERYTHING about physical size. It's largely irrelevant. There has been so much development with turbochargers that I would rather take a small turbo of the newest generation than a larger unit of older generation.

And check here.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
I have a he341ve in my basement, there is no way to phisically fit it behind the engine in a mk4, altough it sould be possible to fit above the transmission.. but it will never spool well enough for a daily driver..

Dave, do you know if there is something with relatively small frame dimension that flows around 350hp of air at pr 3.5 minimum without falling of the compressormap with a vnt turbine housing? so somethink like a 2260vk, but one size bigger:D
 

devonutopia

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Dec 1, 2003
Location
Devon, U.K
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PD300 Skoda Fabia
I assume Garrett haven't done something bonkers like a GTB2570vk then? :D It is a little disheartening for me to read the GTb2260vk is not enough as this is exactly what I have now. :D
 
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