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-   -   Amsoil In this Thread only (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=232711)

BKmetz June 27th, 2006 17:10

Amsoil In this Thread only
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank M
I have a question, if a new separate Amsoil thread is started, can it survive like this one.


I want to start one and need to know the rules beforehand. thanks
The rules are that I will probably lock it after a few days because the anti-Amsoil cult will fill it with empty posts that will only encourage another endless redundant beat-a-dead-horse dead-end debate, complete with redundant photos of hand painted " Motorcycle Inspection & repair Amsoil Oil for sale" signs that add nothing to whatever is being debated.

The rules: when an Amsoil thread loses its relevance, it's getting locked. When an Amsoil thread degrades into personal attacks, it's getting locked. When an Amsoil thread goes on for pages and pages of wasted bandwidth, it's getting locked. When an Amsoil thread is nothing but attacks against Amsoil's certification protocols, MLM sales structure, and corporate policies, which the people who sell and use it here have no control over, it's getting locked.

To put all this as simply as I can: when people refuse to agree to disagree about whatever it is they like or dislike about Amsoil, it's getting locked.

What aspect of Amsoil that has not been debated ad nauseum already in any previous thread could be argued about? I'll go even further, a challenge: I encourage anyone to start an Amsoil thread in which any aspect of the company or product has not been discussed before. You guys will have to be your own scorekeepers and judges. Any who finds a previous post, thread, etc, post a link. If the subject has been covered before, I'm shutting the thread down. So what this comes down to is how well one can use the TDIClub search feature. I will allow new threads to continue as long as no one can show the subject has not been covered before.

There will have to be some rules:

no subject hijacking: self-explanatory,

respect: no attacks, bullying, insults, flaming, or trolling. We are all adults here,

relevance: no posting for the sake of just posting, wasting time and bandwidth, I want content that is good information that ADDS VALUE to the thread, no post whoring to see who gets in the last word

stay on topic: if after several posts the subject strays, even to previously covered Amsoil topics, it is subject to being locked. This means a thread might go on for several pages, or only a few posts. It ends when it is time.

No invoking Godwin's Law: Any mention of ****** or ****'s to make a point, the thread is automatically locked. Anyone who invokes Godwin's Law has automatically lost the argument. That's Godwin's Law in a nutshell.

FUD tactics are not allowed to make a point: Google FUD Tactics if you don't know what that means. Resorting to spreading Fear, Uncertainty, & Doubt to discredit or make a point will result in a thread being locked.

No anecdotal or testimonial posts: You have used Brand X oil for 40 years and have driven a million miles without any oil related problems. So what? So has everyone else on their brand of oil and will tell you so. Want to brag about your oil, get a job as an audience shill on a cable TV infomercial. Shill posts will be edited.

I am open to suggestions on streamlining content or clarification of rules. I consider this a work in progress. This is a team effort, all suggestions are welcome. No email or PMs, everything is to be posted here.

Edited to expand the list.

LurkerMike June 27th, 2006 17:26

The search function here is so frustrating to use that it makes me contemplate suicide...

BKmetz June 27th, 2006 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by LurkerMike
The search function here is so frustrating to use that it makes me contemplate suicide...

I have no control over that.

GetMore June 29th, 2006 08:17

Sounds like you are going to be busy, keeping an eye on the thread. Good luck with that.

I've got a suggestion for the thread: Maybe someone can start a sticky that lists all the pros/cons and viewpoints, both good and bad. After all, if the arguments, procedures, specs, etc. don't really change then maybe a well written list of all of them would be the best solution.
One stop shopping, as it were.

Sooch June 29th, 2006 08:31

Sounds a lot like the Pro-Amsoil folks can do no wrong to me, while the Anti-Amsoil "cult" keeps getting beat down. I'm not even sure that anti-Amsoil is the proper term and those folks are certainly no more of a cult than the believers. Aren't believers or followers of a belief usually the "cult"?

Can't we even try to be fair here? Who was it that hijacked this post?
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=140761

I realize that I may get banned for even questioning the authorities, but truly there has to be a common ground and a way to be even handed about this sort of content.

LanduytG June 29th, 2006 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sooch
Sounds a lot like the Pro-Amsoil folks can do no wrong to me, while the Anti-Amsoil "cult" keeps getting beat down. I'm not even sure that anti-Amsoil is the proper term and those folks are certainly no more of a cult than the believers. Aren't believers or followers of a belief usually the "cult"?

Can't we even try to be fair here? Who was it that hijacked this post?
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=140761

I realize that I may get banned for even questioning the authorities, but truly there has to be a common ground and a way to be even handed about this sort of content.

jombl is who.

Greg

tditom June 29th, 2006 08:48

Excellent idea!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GetMore
Sounds like you are going to be busy, keeping an eye on the thread. Good luck with that.

I've got a suggestion for the thread: Maybe someone can start a sticky that lists all the pros/cons and viewpoints, both good and bad. After all, if the arguments, procedures, specs, etc. don't really change then maybe a well written list of all of them would be the best solution.
One stop shopping, as it were.

;)
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=97

Sooch June 29th, 2006 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by LanduytG
jombl is who.

Greg

I believe that it was post number 6 that started the thread off on the "beat a dead horse" tangent.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...90&postcount=6

LanduytG June 29th, 2006 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sooch
I believe that it was post number 6 that started the thread off on the "beat a dead horse" tangent.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...90&postcount=6


I guess thats how you see it. Andy was just pointing out some facts that P1performance had wrong.

Greg

LanduytG June 29th, 2006 14:20

If you look back at all the threads its always the same people saying the same thing. Brian I think a bunch should have a time out, period. I don't care who likes it and who does not. This crap gets old and has been that way for sometime.

Greg

BKmetz June 29th, 2006 16:49

It doesn't matter to me what the brand of oil is. It doesn't matter to me how a company markets its oil. Amsoil is what it is, and all the debate in the world will change nothing. This is why I have taken a hardliner attitude with the Amsoil threads.

This post reflects some of the problems with trying to debate Amsoil:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=97

Quote:

Can't we even try to be fair here? Who was it that hijacked this post?
Quote:

I believe that it was post number 6 that started the thread off on the "beat a dead horse" tangent.
Sootch, it was the MOTUL guy who first mentioned Amsoil, not Andy. If this forum had reps from the other brands listed I would expect them to get involved too. I did not find Andy's response unreasonable.

jombl, I do not have a problem with your facts. I have a HUGE problem with your attitude. Attacks, insults, and slander will not be tolerated. I don't care how much you think you are right, there is no excuse for an attack or calling someone a liar, twice. Andy is not a liar, his version of the facts simply do not agree with your version of the facts. Liar means intentional deceit, this is not the case. Figure out a more diplomatic way to make you point because next time will involve time-outs. You have been told.

To summarize: Debating Amsoil is not a problem. Threads get edited, locked, deleted, etc, from abuse. I use the term anti-Amsoil cult for the reason Greg stated, it's almost always the same people sabotaging threads, over and over. The Amsoil critics all engage in the same tactic, crap up any and all Amsoil threads until it has to be locked, then cry foul when they are called on it. I have NEVER read any thread in which pro-Amsoil people attacked the competition. If they can accept the competition, so can the Amsoil critics accept Amsoil. Amsoil is not going away, so get used to it.

Learn to agree to disagree, because no one is going to win any Amsoil debate anyway.

Frank M June 29th, 2006 19:28

Why is Amsoil attacked to this degree by members?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BKMetz
It doesn't matter to me what the brand of oil is. It doesn't matter to me how a company markets its oil. Amsoil is what it is, and all the debate in the world will change nothing. This is why I have taken a hardliner attitude with the Amsoil threads..

You sound upset and to get upset over something like an oil preference is just not good for one's health.
Why is Amsoil attacked to this degree by members?
Well my feeling about the Amsoil attack by other members is this:
At times it has been pushed on members like it is some sort of religious ointment for our vehicles. And to get it we have to belong to a certain domination and get it through the chief priest. The chief priest is always ready to take our order.
This grates on members and cause those rebuttals that we see in some threads.
I notice that other oils that are marketed differently are not the victims of long sarcastic remarks by members.
The solution I see is for Amsoil users to talk about their product in a normal fashion and not attribute mystique to its qualities.

AndyH June 29th, 2006 19:55

Frank,

When I was in high school, one of my teachers showed a great short movie on creativity. These ping-pong balls are cruising thru a factory on the way from plastic blobs to finished, packaged products. At one of the last stations before boxing, they go thru a 'bounce test'. The only test for the balls is that they bounce 'high enough' to be accepted. Those that do, are boxed, wrapped, and shipped. Those that don't are rejected and sent back to be melted down. One of the balls came thru the line, did it's bounce test, and zoomed into the air higher than any of the others. Lights flashed, alarm bells rang, and this ball wasn't rejected to the scrap pile, it was ejected into the dumpster in the alley. The remaining movie is has an allusion to an old prophet, complete with the ball evading hords of earth-bound balls by shooting straight up into the clouds and disappearing.

Peer groups can perform a very valuable function when they keep the stragglers up with the core of the group. Unfortunately, they can perform a very harmful function when they try to 'rein in' the front-runners.

Why the attacks, Frank? (and the photos of hand-painted signs?!) Because the 'truth' is just fine - as long as it's the 'group's truth'. Sigh.

Andy

span1_85 June 29th, 2006 20:16

and if someone can't figure out that the easiest was to get amsoils is to order it from amsoil.com and if u become a prefered customer u get it for the prices that amsoil venders do. seems pretty simple to me. and i mean i don't think that amsoil is this gift from heaven, i have friends that use other oils and they work just fine too.

whitedog June 29th, 2006 20:22

I was wondering why BK was saying that Amsoil posting rules. I see my problem now.

I hope it goes well for everyone and something constructive can come of it.


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