New car Prices

vova

Veteran
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Location
Los Gatos CA
TDI
2006 jetta tdi
In the market for a 2013 tdi wagon with navigation and roof. Got an out the door privce for $30k.
What is everyone else paying?
 

tariq

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Location
FL
TDI
2013 TDI Sportwagen
Yeah, a roof is always good to have. :) I'm guessing you mean Pano. I bought my 2013 back in Oct. I ended up going with one without Nav but with everything else - DSG, Pano - for just over 27K (plus tax). I was offered a price of under 29 for a similar model with Nav. All that is without tax so if you are including tax (out the door?) then 30K sounds about right. If not, it might be a smidgen high imo.
 

30Bones

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Location
Cedar Rapids, Ia
TDI
2013 Touareg TDI
I think we were just over 26K w/out NAV which IMO is a waste of money. Most say a DSG and pano is also it's all matter of opinion I guess.
 

jahlov420

Veteran Member
Joined
May 4, 2012
Location
Fredericksburg Va
TDI
2010 sportwagen MANUAL! DPF-Delete @ stage 2
used 2010 with 77k miles. purchased in april 2012. pano roof. 6-speed manual, 17-inch wheels, no nav 17k out the door.
 

di96

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Location
Portland
TDI
2013 JSW
2013 tdi with nav/pano/stick for 27k. Included monster mats and first aid kit. Shoot for 1500 under invoice, settle for under 1000 or so and you should be good.


Nav is ok. Keyys is where its at, I consider it a must and only avail with nav.
 

Waynoooo

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Location
Bel Air, Maryland
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
Check with Chris at Langhorne VW. He is user 3193 (?) on here. It might be worth the flight from California to Philly, if he can cut you a good deal. He will probably be able to get you EXACTLY what you want on the JSW.

Cheers and good luck!

Wayne
 

MAJSW

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Location
MA
TDI
2013 JSW 6sp/Pano/Nav/Tempest Blue
I was exactly same as di96 last December at 27k + tax. Although The nav/pano/stick combo is quite rare especially in the metallic colors.

Nav is fine but unit with added 32gb SD card and loaded with lossless m4a files is awesome for stock radio. KESSY that comes with it is worth every penny. The key never ever leaves your pocket. The voice activated Bluetooth phone works very well and syncs nicely with phone, although that's probably the same with the standard RCD510 radio. Plus the RNS315 nav unit is plug and play for the backup camera I installed For $220 adding more value to getting nav.
 
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di96

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Location
Portland
TDI
2013 JSW
I was exactly same as di96 last December at 27k + tax. Although The nav/pano/stick combo is quite rare especially in the metallic colors.

Nav is fine but unit with added 32gb SD card and loaded with lossless m4a files is awesome for stock radio. KESSY that comes with it is worth every penny. The key never ever leaves your pocket. The voice activated Bluetooth phone works very well and syncs nicely with phone, although that's probably the same with the standard RCD510 radio. Plus the RNS315 nav unit is plug and play for the backup camera I installed For $220 adding more value to getting nav.
I want backup camera! More details please, link to camera?
 

MAJSW

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Location
MA
TDI
2013 JSW 6sp/Pano/Nav/Tempest Blue
I want backup camera! More details please, link to camera?
I bought this one on eBay from Asian seller. Quick shipping and excellent part.
eBay link

Install instructions easily found on this forum and vwvortex. It does require quick coding in vagcom, and there are some posted install methods more involved than others. The "simple" way worked for me meaning no taking apart anything other than the rear hatch trim.
 
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MAJSW

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Location
MA
TDI
2013 JSW 6sp/Pano/Nav/Tempest Blue
Not to continue this off-topic issue, but that is a crazy price. It is suspect with no imprinted part number. I will say mine had the VW part number on it, came with the wiring harness with imprinted part number and made in Germany, and genuine Tesa cloth friction tape. Supposedly the cameras are made in Japan and VW had to limit offering it as an option after tsunami disrupted supply. Everything was very nice and fit/worked perfect (after I fixed my initial install error).
The wire was also ample length.

The camera had built in wiring pigtails with proper connectors - one to connect to hatch controls and the other for the camera wiring harness. The KESSY system worked perfect with it.

Obviously with that $30 camera you also need the wire harness since the ones shown won't work.
 
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jni3

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Location
pennsylvania
TDI
2012 sportwagen tdi / 2012 golf tdi
In the market for a 2013 tdi wagon with navigation and roof. Got an out the door privce for $30k.
What is everyone else paying?

what's the msrp on the car? also does your OTD price include a down payment and/or trade in?
 

Outrider6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Location
Arlington, VA
TDI
JSW 2011
Call me crazy, but a $10K premium is insane for a TDI. (A base S, 2.5L gasser goes for around $20K in the not-so-cheap DC area.).

I hope diesel costs about the same as regular gas where you are. The EPA bases annual use on 12,000 miles per year. EPA figures a TDI will burn about 300 gallons of diesel. EPA figures the S will burn about 400 gallons of regular. 100 gallons savings. But if diesel is $4 per gallon and regular gas is $3 per gallon, the annual fuel costs are the same...10 miles per dollar.

TDIs are generally better equipped than gassers. So there's no apples to apples comparison. And the only way to get a manual gasser is to buy the cheapest JSW, the base S. That means you can't get the panoramic roof and that you can only get a black cloth interior. But, assuming there's a loan involved, is the difference worth borrowing all of that extra money?

There are plenty of reasons to get a TDI. And I'm very pleased with mine. But I wouldn't want to get raked over the coals financially for the privilege of owning it.
 

Snatch Catch

Active member
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Location
California
TDI
2013 SportsWagen DSG
Call me crazy, but a $10K premium is insane for a TDI. (A base S, 2.5L gasser goes for around $20K in the not-so-cheap DC area.).

I hope diesel costs about the same as regular gas where you are. The EPA bases annual use on 12,000 miles per year. EPA figures a TDI will burn about 300 gallons of diesel. EPA figures the S will burn about 400 gallons of regular. 100 gallons savings. But if diesel is $4 per gallon and regular gas is $3 per gallon, the annual fuel costs are the same...10 miles per dollar.

TDIs are generally better equipped than gassers. So there's no apples to apples comparison. And the only way to get a manual gasser is to buy the cheapest JSW, the base S. That means you can't get the panoramic roof and that you can only get a black cloth interior. But, assuming there's a loan involved, is the difference worth borrowing all of that extra money?

There are plenty of reasons to get a TDI. And I'm very pleased with mine. But I wouldn't want to get raked over the coals financially for the privilege of owning it.
You're crazy. Those numbers ($10K premium for a TDI, 33% difference in RUG vs diesel) are not even remotely close to reality.
 

timwagon

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Location
Hauppauge, NY
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagen Stick
Call me crazy, but a $10K premium is insane for a TDI. (A base S, 2.5L gasser goes for around $20K in the not-so-cheap DC area.).

I hope diesel costs about the same as regular gas where you are. The EPA bases annual use on 12,000 miles per year. EPA figures a TDI will burn about 300 gallons of diesel. EPA figures the S will burn about 400 gallons of regular. 100 gallons savings. But if diesel is $4 per gallon and regular gas is $3 per gallon, the annual fuel costs are the same...10 miles per dollar.

TDIs are generally better equipped than gassers. So there's no apples to apples comparison. And the only way to get a manual gasser is to buy the cheapest JSW, the base S. That means you can't get the panoramic roof and that you can only get a black cloth interior. But, assuming there's a loan involved, is the difference worth borrowing all of that extra money?

There are plenty of reasons to get a TDI. And I'm very pleased with mine. But I wouldn't want to get raked over the coals financially for the privilege of owning it.
JSW TDI is exactly $5,200.00 more, for a much better equipped car.

Combined MPG (EPA) is 30% greater, 34 versus 26, although most independent reports of fuel economy by owners have the TDI at about 38-39 mpg combined.

I never pay more than about 10% more for diesel than RUG here on Long Island - I've never seen anything close to a $1.00 spread.

TDI max torque is 235 lbs-ft at 1,750 rpm.

2.5 max torque is 177 @4,250 rpm.

You get what you pay for.
 

Outrider6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Location
Arlington, VA
TDI
JSW 2011
Crazy...Not So Much

You're crazy. Those numbers ($10K premium for a TDI, 33% difference in RUG vs diesel) are not even remotely close to reality.
The OP asked if $30K was a good price for a TDI JSW. I noted that a base S was about $20K in a high cost of living area and offered an opinion that $10K was too much of a premium to get a diesel engine. The OP set the $30K "reality" for a TDI. I offered up a $20K S as an alternative that costs $10K less.

The 33% difference was for easy math, not for extreme accuracy. Diesel prices vary considerably by region and by time of the year. I just did a quick check on prices using GasBuddy and the difference is about 30 cents per gallon in favor of regular. By picking extremes in my area (cheapest regular vs most expensive diesel) I could get the dollar spread. My point was to illustrate the concept of miles per dollar, which is probably more important than MPG in determining operating costs.

But if you want to run the numbers using evenly priced fuel, that fine with me. EPA says a JSW gasser burns 100 gallons more fuel in 12,000 miles than a TDI will. So the net savings at $4 per gallon is...$400. So it takes a while to recoup the costs of the engine, even with identically priced fuel.

Many TDI owners brag about the money saved because of the MPG. But MPG isn't the whole story in determining relative economy. Paying thousands to save hundreds just doesn't make sense to me. I'm more in sync with the benefits of Torque.
 
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Snatch Catch

Active member
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Location
California
TDI
2013 SportsWagen DSG
The OP asked if $30K was a good price for a TDI JSW. I noted that a base S was about $20K in a high cost of living area and offered an opinion that $10K was too much of a premium to get a diesel engine. The OP set the $30K "reality" for a TDI. I offered up a $20K S as an alternative that costs $10K less.

The 33% difference was for easy math, not for extreme accuracy. Diesel prices vary considerably by region and by time of the year. I just did a quick check on prices using GasBuddy and the difference is about 30 cents per gallon in favor of regular. By picking extremes in my area (cheapest regular vs most expensive diesel) I could get the dollar spread. My point was to illustrate the concept of miles per dollar, which is probably more important than MPG in determining operating costs.

Many TDI owners brag about the money saved because of the MPG. But MPG isn't the whole story in determining relative economy. Paying thousands to save hundreds just doesn't make sense to me. I'm more in sync with the benefits of Torque.
I totally agree about the performance benefits of the CR being a key to the comparison, but the OP was asking specifically about a loaded car, so the base model gasser comparison didn't really have any relevance.

About a year ago Consumer Reports actually did a general analysis of cost savings on Hybrid/Diesel cars vs. their comparable gasser counterparts, factoring in price tag, repairs, fuel cost, etc. It's obviously not gospel, but it speaks to the overall question of whether the cost differential for a TDI is worth it.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/01/hybrids-diesels-do-they-save-money/index.htm

Our findings show that six tested diesels can save you money no matter what fuel costs, because their depreciation and fuel costs are significantly lower than their closest conventional counterparts: the Volkswagen Golf TDI, Jetta TDI sedan and wagon, and Passat TDI, the Mercedes-Benz E350 BlueTec, and the GL350 BlueTec SUV.
The conventional vehicles with which we compared the hybrids and diesels are the closest available alternatives when considering all factors, including performance, safety, and features. Most were compared with a similarly equipped all-gas version from the same model line.
Cost factors we considered include depreciation, fuel costs, insurance, interest on financing, maintenance and repairs, and sales tax.
 

tariq

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Location
FL
TDI
2013 TDI Sportwagen
About a year ago Consumer Reports actually did a general analysis of cost savings on Hybrid/Diesel cars vs. their comparable gasser counterparts, factoring in price tag, repairs, fuel cost, etc. It's obviously not gospel, but it speaks to the overall question of whether the cost differential for a TDI is worth it.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/01/hybrids-diesels-do-they-save-money/index.htm
I forgot about that report. Nice! 1 yr payback for a TDI JSW in the example given.

With regard to the price difference, very few would ever pay 30K for a TDI JSW. Most of us have spent between 27/28K for a decked out TDI JSW with DSG, Pano and sometimes even Nav (maybe add 1K for Nav). If one looks at Truecar.com (which is pretty accurate for the price one will pay), the difference between the closest comparable gasser JSW similarly outfitted (so SE, except a gasser can't have the superior DSG!) is really only 3K! A TDI offers a LOT more performance and fuel savings for that initial 3K. Factor in the much higher depreciation on a gasser and everything flips with the TDI the better long term value by far.
 

RomanL

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Location
Denver, CO
TDI
'10 GOLF TDI
But if you want to run the numbers using evenly priced fuel, that fine with me. EPA says a JSW gasser burns 100 gallons more fuel in 12,000 miles than a TDI will. So the net savings at $4 per gallon is...$400. So it takes a while to recoup the costs of the engine, even with identically priced.
Here are simple numbers. I drive TDI mkvi my gf has mkv 2.5 gasser so essentially same cars.
To date I spent $6,550 to go 70,000 miles 128 fill ups
my gf spent $6,675 to go 49,000 miles 156 fill ups
There have been times where I paid 40% more for D2 but there have also been plenty of times unpaid less for d2 vs rug
That's quite the difference.
It's not about nikle and diming. If u want to save money get Toyota yards for $10k and have fun.
To most people premium for TDI is well worth it.
Btw. Look At used prices of 2.5 vs TDI and you'll see sellers getting their premium back as TDI used go for much higher prices
 

Outrider6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Location
Arlington, VA
TDI
JSW 2011
So let's talk about loaded...

My basis of comparison involves 2013 models because we're talking new cars.

The 2013 S has some reasonably significant upgrades over previous base JSWs. Key among these are an MFSW, a full MFD, a dash cubby, and Bluetooth. (Since older S JSWs don't have these extras, the feature comparison between older S JSWs and a TDI is different and, perhaps, less favorable to an S.)

The S is generally the same inside as the TDI, although the S has black cloth seats and the TDI's 110V outlet is deleted. The S stereo is downgraded to the RCD-310, but it's still a reasonably competent unit.

Though tastes vary, the S has almost no exterior chrome on it...something of considerable worth to those who like the blackout look. Only the S comes with black trim rather than chrome.

As to major features, transmissions are the biggest differentiator between the S and the TDI. The TDI's optional DSG outperforms the S Tiptronic. As to manuals, the TDI has a 6MT and the S sports a 5MT. Transmission choice is a big factor in picking the right JSW for any particular driver. The DSG is great for those who want the car to do the shifting. The manual transmission comparison is tougher to call, though it's easy to say six is better than five. But the five speed is perfectly adequate in the S.

The S can not be had with a Panoramic sunroof, though the sunroof is an expensive, sometimes problematic, option that not all TDI owners want, either. The S comes in fewer colors than a TDI does, which can be a deal-breaker depending on personal preferences. Wheels are the last obvious difference, with an S sporting 16 inch steelies and the TDI sporting alloys...but not necessarily the alloys you want. Taken together, there are not a whole lot of differences in features between a TDI and an S...in part because there just aren't that many options for JSWs.

Though upgrading cuts into the value equation for an S, most anything that a TDI offers can be added to an S. (The obvious exception is the sunroof, but transmission swaps, color changes, and new interiors tend to be way more than most folks want to mess with. So I'd call those things fixed. If the S doesn't offer one of those features that you want...don't get it.) But upgrades are only called for when something isn't sufficient for its intended use...a rather subjective criterion. The S is probably sufficiently equipped for most JSW owners and doesn't need upgrades.

Somebody who's looking for a manual JSW, can skip the sunroof, and doesn't mind a black cloth interior would find a great buy in an S. Swapping out the wheels and, if you want it, the stereo, are easy and inexpensive...something plenty of TDI owners do, too. For example, the Portos came off my TDI within a week of purchase.

An honest comparison should not be taken as TDI bashing. The TDI JSW is a great car, but an S is quite nice, too. The latest S JSWs have a lot of features that formerly were reserved for TDIs and SELs, something that increases the S value proposition and makes it worth at least thinking about the S as an option. An S trim JSW may not be "fully loaded," but it's not exactly stripped down, either.
 
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Outrider6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Location
Arlington, VA
TDI
JSW 2011
I Wonder How They Got Their Numbers...

About a year ago Consumer Reports actually did a general analysis of cost savings on Hybrid/Diesel cars vs. their comparable gasser counterparts, factoring in price tag, repairs, fuel cost, etc. It's obviously not gospel, but it speaks to the overall question of whether the cost differential for a TDI is worth it.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/01/hybrids-diesels-do-they-save-money/index.htm
Thanks for the link. Interesting chart and conclusion. I just wish they explained their methodology.

The CR numbers did not make sense to me and CR didn't explain how they got them. CR did say that the Jetta TDI JSW paid back the ($1250) price premium over an SE in a year. Depending on fuel costs (low) and driving (high), a $1250 fuel savings seems possible. But CR picked a manual TDI and a Tiptronic SE...something that minimizes the purchase cost differential and maximizes the mpg differential. (And the only way you'd know this is an inapt comparison is to know that SEs are Tiptronic only.) The manual S would be a better point of comparison with a base manual TDI, but that about triples the price spread CW quoted for JSWs.

If you look at the Jetta sedans on the chart, CR also claims that payback is achieved in a year where the TDI costs $25.1K and the SE costs $20.3K--a $4800 differential. I don't see how you could recoup $4800 in fuel costs in a year when it's unlikely that you'll even spent $4800 in fuel in a year.

If an SE only got 20 miles per gallon in 12,000 miles of driving, it burned 600 gallons of fuel, which is $2400 in absolute fuel costs.

If a TDI got 40 miles per gallon in 12,000 miles of driving, it burned 300 gallons of fuel, which is $1200 in absolute fuel costs.

The annual cost difference there is only $1200, so it takes four times as much driving to recoup the diesel's cost. (The linked article didn't list an annual driving mileage, so I used EPA's 12K.)

If CR added in other factors, such as depreciation and maintenance, they need to say how these affected their ratings. But some of CR's claims and methodology seem to be, if not biased, somewhat unscientific.

I fully recognize that the better MPG car should eventually win the economy war. But factors like fuel cost differential and mpg differential do matter. A TDI recoups the premium quickest in situations where the car picks up a lot of highway miles (where its mpg performance can shine) and where diesel costs are relatively the lowest/gasoline prices relatively higher. If the situation is reversed where the car won't drive many miles and diesel is relatively expensive it's tougher to justify a TDI simply based on fuel economy.

My point made, it's time for me to go out and recoup some TDI premium...by enjoying some TDI torque on a nice, long ride.
 
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meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB

tariq

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Location
FL
TDI
2013 TDI Sportwagen
There is no rational way to make the case that a base S JSW gasser cost's less than a base TDI manual JSW during ownership, with the two scenarios being either selling both after three/ four years OR keeping both for the life of the car. In the first scenario, the premium for the TDI (5K, which does include a superior specked vehicle...better transmission, more durable interior, better wheels, better stereo...) is fully recouped just in the residual value comparison (KBB for instance, which shows almost exactly a 5K advantage for the base TDI after three years looking at 2010 data). That's even before calculating any fuel savings of the TDI during that period. Under the second scenario (life of car), the fuel savings of the TDI will catch up and surpass the 5K difference. Anyway, folks should buy what they want ultimately but there is certainly an economic case to be made for a TDI.
 

Mitral

Active member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Location
Twin Cities
TDI
2013 SportWagen TDI
Platinum Gray Metallic 2013 JSW TDI 6sp Manual, no GPS (have Garmin Dash Mount), no Panoramic Roof (I like to stay out of the sun!)

Carpet Floormats, Cargo Organizer, and silly First Aid Kit.

$24,750

Cheers!
 

ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
2013 JSW TDI 6sp Manual, no GPS.... Panoramic Roof
Carpet Floormats, Cargo Organizer, and silly First Aid Kit.
$24,750

Cheers!
.
.....I would say you're a shrewd dude.
$25400 is my best so far........I'm having a beech of a time even locating a Candy/Cornsilk 6M w/o Pano/NAV..............

Consider writing a book..............I'd buy it!
ez
 
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