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-   -   BHW Balance Shaft Module replacement (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=233651)

vw4life June 5th, 2009 10:31

I am sure mine is loud, or even medium loud. It is about 45k miles. Dealer says NORMAL! ARHG! useless VW piece of ship warranty

oilhammer June 5th, 2009 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by vw4life
I am sure mine is loud, or even medium loud. It is about 45k miles. Dealer says NORMAL! ARHG! useless VW piece of ship warranty

Well, in a way, it IS normal...normal for them to make noise, and ultimately fail if not upgraded. The dealer just has no idea what is going on, what the damage does, and that VW has put forth an upgraded set of parts to fix the problem.

vw4life June 5th, 2009 10:38

a little birdie told me VW canada has a TSB for this. I'm not sure if I trust the birdie, but anyone with Canadian resources should ask (again).

PlaneCrazy June 5th, 2009 12:54

I shall know soon, a VW tech is coming to look at (or rather listen to) our car next week. It was supposed to be this week but the tech was delayed on an emergency call (broken chain maybe?)

It has 176,000 km on the clock. I will be interested to see what he says. My service manager says he can quite clearly hear the chain and what sounds like out-of-synch balance shafts.

oilhammer June 5th, 2009 13:17

You should try and hook up with someone in your area that has already had the upgrade done. The difference will be obvious.

volkswagendude June 5th, 2009 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
You should try and hook up with someone in your area that has already had the upgrade done. The difference will be obvious.

I'll put money down Planecrazy and I are the only ones within a 100 mile radius, that even know about this problem. The only documented case of an actual repair, was a about 2 years ago at a dealer in Laval(suburb of Montreal), where a noisy chain, was replaced under warranty by, you guessed it, an other chain. :rolleyes: It's also worth noting that the Montreal area is TDI haven, so the fact that the dealers are still clueless on this matter, is quite disturbing in a very very weird, almost like a conspiracy sort of way.

If anyone in the Montreal area has already done the gear upgrade, PLEASE chime in!!!

dhuddleson June 5th, 2009 19:59

Originally from Montreal... but in Ottawa now. And yes, mine was done a couple of weeks ago.

oilhammer June 5th, 2009 20:05

Well, there will surely be plenty of us at TDI fest. :p

volkswagendude June 5th, 2009 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhuddleson
Originally from Montreal... but in Ottawa now. And yes, mine was done a couple of weeks ago.

Ahh, 200km (2 hours)away. Not too bad.

I just visited the Ontario thread where you guys discussed the repair. However none of you mentioned price in CDN funds. Oilhammer has mentioned shy of $2900 for the repair at his shop(feel free to correct me Oilhammer ;) ), and off the top of my head, something like $3600, if you do the whole hog, alternator pulley, coolant flush, motor mounts.

What did you guys pay in Ontario? Approx.

PlaneCrazy June 6th, 2009 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by volkswagendude
I'll put money down Planecrazy and I are the only ones within a 100 mile radius, that even know about this problem. The only documented case of an actual repair, was a about 2 years ago at a dealer in Laval(suburb of Montreal), where a noisy chain, was replaced under warranty by, you guessed it, an other chain. :rolleyes: It's also worth noting that the Montreal area is TDI haven, so the fact that the dealers are still clueless on this matter, is quite disturbing in a very very weird, almost like a conspiracy sort of way.

If anyone in the Montreal area has already done the gear upgrade, PLEASE chime in!!!

I was in Montreal yesterday riding a Bixi (for those not in the know a really cool bike rental system just set up this spring in Montreal; automated kiosks at frequent locations, pick up a bike and return it to any other kiosk) and a B5.5 did glide by me and it was awful smooth and quiet, much more so than when I hear my wife drive up our longish driveway with ours. So I suspect there may be at least another :)

tdisedanman June 6th, 2009 10:58

VW Germany confirmed in writing my remanufactured engine has the new balance shaft oil pump gear drive.

leobg June 6th, 2009 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by vw4life
a little birdie told me VW canada has a TSB for this. I'm not sure if I trust the birdie, but anyone with Canadian resources should ask (again).

Do you mean recall? Or only for those under warranty? My warranty expired this month (and coincidentally I just passed 100,000KM mark last week). I was planning to have the update done ASAP after my warranty is gone. But if there is recall coming I'd rather wait, as mine doesn't sound that bad just yet.
On my last service before 100K mark I asked them to check "much lauder engine in the past 10K or so", which was answered "engine noise is normal" as everyone guessed already I am sure :mad:

volkswagendude June 6th, 2009 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlaneCrazy
I was in Montreal yesterday riding a Bixi (for those not in the know a really cool bike rental system just set up this spring in Montreal; automated kiosks at frequent locations, pick up a bike and return it to any other kiosk) and a B5.5 did glide by me and it was awful smooth and quiet, much more so than when I hear my wife drive up our longish driveway with ours. So I suspect there may be at least another :)

There was an old man driving his(looked to be in his 70's) at the supermarket a few weeks ago, and like I always do in any case, being the hard core enthusiast that I am(had nothing to do with the BS comparison, just the way I am), I listened intently to his, and was dismayed :mad: :D at how much quieter his sounded than mine.

Now its worth noting, that virtually every single car I have owned in my life, in comparison to anybody else's, mine always sounded slightly louder. Not rougher. Just louder.

I came up with a theory a long time ago. Having a very, on occasion, heavy foot, I do believe that all exhaust related items, manifolds, valves, etc, in my cars are not nearly as coated in carbon, as your average driver out there. And that 70 year old man was no exception.

Not saying you are wrong. I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT! That there is someone who has done this around here for all the obvious reasons that may be of benefit to us in this region concerning this matter. If God forbid we are the only two in Montreal area that are about to do this BS thing, any hopes of reimbursement or recall from VW, was truly a dream far far off, and very unrealistic to begin with. But like you, I do have a faint glitter of optimism...

dhuddleson June 6th, 2009 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by volkswagendude
Ahh, 200km (2 hours)away. Not too bad.

I just visited the Ontario thread where you guys discussed the repair. However none of you mentioned price in CDN funds. Oilhammer has mentioned shy of $2900 for the repair at his shop(feel free to correct me Oilhammer ;) ), and off the top of my head, something like $3600, if you do the whole hog, alternator pulley, coolant flush, motor mounts.

What did you guys pay in Ontario? Approx.

After paying the taxes, the total price is about $3700. but no engine mounts or alternator pulley. They were checked, since I did ask, and they were still fine. It seems the BS "kit" is more expensive than straight US-Canada currency exchange (and of course rates are even closer recently).

tdicdi June 6th, 2009 20:53

Long time lurker... own a 2005 Passat TDI Wagon with 54xxx miles. Still under drivetrain warranty, but just not comfortable with the car anymore... getting it done by Oilhammer this Friday.... Will report back here after it is all done. Though I have to say it drives and sounds totally normal to me right now. I do have a 600 mile drive each way... but stay tuned for the update!

volkswagendude June 6th, 2009 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhuddleson
After paying the taxes, the total price is about $3700. but no engine mounts or alternator pulley. They were checked, since I did ask, and they were still fine. It seems the BS "kit" is more expensive than straight US-Canada currency exchange (and of course rates are even closer recently).

That my friend is a hefty chunk of change :(
This car is going to drive me nuts! Decisions decisions...

vw4life June 6th, 2009 21:33

I looks like Ms Katie Fox has heard a few things about VW gasser engines with chain problems too. This story is sad...I feel so sad that I love VW. I wish VW in north america would get its head out of its butt.

have a gander of this sad story which is pretty dam similar to ours.

http://www.reesphotos.com/VW/

aja8888 June 6th, 2009 22:16

Too bad we couldn't get a jerk like Michael Moore
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...8/abidensm.jpg
or some cleb on our side to promote or help kick off an internet and/or news media blitz against VW on these issues.

I sent that fellow with the stripped sprocket a link to this thread for good measure.

oilhammer June 7th, 2009 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by vw4life
I looks like Ms Katie Fox has heard a few things about VW gasser engines with chain problems too. This story is sad...I feel so sad that I love VW. I wish VW in north america would get its head out of its butt.

have a gander of this sad story which is pretty dam similar to ours.

http://www.reesphotos.com/VW/

That is hardly anything 'new'. Seen that lots of times. Hey TDI-POWER, there is a nice write-up on your superior VR6 chain drive! Even with pics! :rolleyes:

People should understand, VW + chain = Fail. Period.

Us BHW owners really should rejoice once upgraded, as our engines no longer have ANY chains ANYWHERE!!! :D They will probably become one of the longest lasting VAG engines since the AHU! :)

05PassatTDI June 7th, 2009 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by vw4life
I am sure mine is loud, or even medium loud. It is about 45k miles. Dealer says NORMAL! ARHG! useless VW piece of ship warranty

Hard to understand the dealerships. Easily almost $4K worth of unplanned revenue to replace one of these under the PT warranty. I was lucky enough to have this taken care of under the PT waranty (my decision to have all the regular maintenance work done by my dealership since new may have helped). VW Canada must have known about this defect. My dealership did at least 5 of these. It all started when the 1st one was towed in with the broken chain. The bill was scary if I had to pay for it. I took a peak and it was around $1800 for the BS + 15 hours @ $115/hr. May worth your time to try different dealerships until you find one that needs the $revenue. This process, unfortunately, is based solely on your luck...

leicaman June 7th, 2009 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888
Too bad we couldn't get a jerk like Michael Moore
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...8/abidensm.jpg
or some cleb on our side to promote or help kick off an internet and/or news media blitz against VW on these issues.

I sent that fellow with the stripped sprocket a link to this thread for good measure.

I just sent the BS thread to Michael Moore himself. Well you never know...

senez June 8th, 2009 05:08

Car is in Wilmington at German Speed Merchants, appointment for today. Should pick it up tomorrow.

Am I correct in that you can no longer order the chain-driven assembly? I'm pretty sure they understood what I was saying as Jon said, "this is an expensive upgrade, but a necessary one."

Hopefully it sounds different when I get it back.

oilhammer June 8th, 2009 05:10

Correct, you cannot buy the chain-driven balance shaft assembly. You can still buy the chain and tensioner, while parts supplies last. But why would you?

senez June 8th, 2009 05:35

Good good...I have no idea why you would, as you'd just be back in there in short order. I just wanted some measure of assurance that they weren't ripping me off at 1800 bucks. I should know within seconds whether or not it was done correctly.

So I talked with the guy about 5...he said they got a late start and got it to the point of BS removal. May not be able to pick it up tomorrow as they don't want to rush it. Hopefully this doesn't increase my expected cost exponentially. I would really hope not.

rluteijn June 8th, 2009 16:29

Hi there,

This forum has certainly wrecked my weekend (and trust in VW !) since Steve @ Independent Auto pointed me out to this problem...

I found this link (one more confirmation...) http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Compl...kswagen/Passat that contains 24 (on June 8 2009) complaints filed with the NHTSA.

We're at 82000 Mi and the car vibrates (and is loud) when stopped at a light (in gear, foot on brake). In neutral it sounds OK.
Tried to get the dealer to recommend the BS replacement but they cannot find a problem and point to the CV Joint (that will be replaced tomorrow, but cannot have anything to do with vibration when the car is not moving ??).

Not sure wheter to repair the car or pay 3500 + <fill with amount that dealer owner needs to replace his old 65" flatscreen TV with a larger one> to fix the vibration.

Thanks,
Richard

oilhammer June 8th, 2009 17:20

Get it upgraded, ASAP. Don't let it break! :eek:

volkswagendude June 8th, 2009 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by rluteijn
I found this link (one more confirmation...) http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Compl...kswagen/Passat that contains 24 (on June 8 2009) complaints filed with the NHTSA.

Nice link!

leicaman June 8th, 2009 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
Get it upgraded, ASAP. Don't let it break! :eek:

Absolutely! My car has not moved an inch for the last two weeks and it won't move an inch until the day I drive it to Oilhammer to get repaired. Nice part about doing it this way I will drive down there on $2.10 per gallon diesel as I filled the tank up several weeks ago! :)

senez June 9th, 2009 19:02

They didn't finish today. Said they should be able to finish it tomorrow, but he wants it to get it up and running for a bit to make sure there aren't any additional issues before he sends me home with it. Maybe Thursday before I see it again.

:(

tdicdi June 11th, 2009 09:53

Cant wait to see Brian tomorrow!! Finally chainless... though its a long drive there yet!!
Will give an update soon on how that went!!
Thanks for everything Brian....
Raji

oilhammer June 11th, 2009 10:31

Have a safe trip here. Don't drive too fast... and remember Interstate 64 through STL is closed. :o

leicaman June 11th, 2009 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdicdi
Cant wait to see Brian tomorrow!! Finally chainless... though its a long drive there yet!!
Will give an update soon on how that went!!
Thanks for everything Brian....
Raji

Drive careful and safe. Don't want to hear tales of woe and or a nasty ticket. Besides, if you drive properly at the limit you will use less diesel fuel! Be nice to Brian I don't want him grumpy when I see him next week.

oilhammer June 11th, 2009 11:06

I have a total of 11 Volkswagens here today, no way in heck I good be grumpy. I am one happy camper! :D :D :D

tdicdi June 11th, 2009 12:24

Thanks Guys... will drive relatively slow.. at least on the way there! I hear all kinds of imaginary chain sounds in my head now when I go over 70!
And I was hoping to catch Brian in a great mood, too - luckily the other 11 cars there today have helped accomplish that task!!
Will try and leave work early today to start out... maybe in another hour or two.
Anxious, but cant wait.....

rluteijn June 11th, 2009 13:38

Thanks everybody for the info on this forum !

After contemplating purchasing an extended warranty (which should be legal and morally sound, since officially there is nothing wrong with the car) the dealer offered to do the job for 2425.00 + tax (using the parts list from my TPI, posted on this forum...).

The last few days driving have been very unpleasant, knowing the whole thing may go kaboom any minute. I can hear noises... I will go back tomorrow for one last test drive with a mechanic.

Funny thing; While visiting the dealer today we walked in the sales section and the salesman asked what kind of car we had. A Passat 2005 TDI Wagon... Oh, he says, very good car, will last you at least 200k Mi.
I said, actually it is designed to not make it past 100k because of a BS chain issue.
Response... silence, then he walked away from me towards my wife to tell her about the new Touareg TDI.

senez June 11th, 2009 13:55

Wow.

Just wow.

:D

I drove it home today and was finally worry-free.

Noise inside the cabin is comparable to before the switch.

But when standing outside the car at idle or with the window rolled down, H-U-G-E difference. Absolutely amazed at how quiet it was and astounded to hear how much noise it WAS making.

I was one of the original detractors, questioning the merits of the conversion and reluctantly had it done because I couldn't get the value I wanted on trade. I am over the moon at my decision to keep it and fix the issue.

Jon and gang down at German Speed Merchants in Wilmington did a bang up job and at the price they quoted.

If there is anyone in the Raleigh-Durham area that wants to have a listen, send me a message and I'll be happy to get in touch and meet you somewhere.

:D :D :D :D

I also have all the old parts, including the TB parts. May post pictures if anyone's interested.

PlaneCrazy June 11th, 2009 14:03

Please do post pictures, I am sure many would be keen to see the wear at your mileage, it will no doubt. Maybe we should set up a photo album with pics of the worn parts and mileage.

I hope to have mine done soon (111,000 miles). Yes I can hear the chain. It's not horribly noisy, but there is definitely a chain noise.

oilhammer June 11th, 2009 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by rluteijn
.....silence, then he walked away from me towards my wife to tell her about the new Touareg TDI.

Which has FOUR chains just a waitin' to Fail. :p

leicaman June 13th, 2009 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
Which has FOUR chains just a waitin' to Fail. :p

The fail quartet!

senez June 13th, 2009 06:49

Today may be a good day to take pictures of my assembly. Though it came back in pieces. I'll try to do that today and post them later.

volkswagendude June 13th, 2009 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
Which has FOUR chains just a waitin' to Fail. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by leicaman
The fail quartet!

That is just too funny! :D

C'mon guys! If you can't laugh, then you must cry, right? :rolleyes:

maktas June 13th, 2009 09:16

I have a quick request, for the life of me, I cannot find pictures of broken guides/ tensioner of the chained BS module, can anyone link me to those pictures? Thanks in advance

I am putting together the case against my ext warranty company and I want to show that others have the same failure I did.

leicaman June 13th, 2009 12:57

Here is a few of the pix all in one spot:
Stripped Teeth Oil Pump Chain unit at 85k
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/85k...ainFailure.jpg
Bad Tensioner
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/BaDTensioner.jpg
Same Bad Tensioner, different angle
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/Oil...nsionerBad.jpg
Oilhammers wall of fail of replaced Oil pump chain units
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/medium/BHWFail.jpg
BHW oil pump chain failure from car that Oilhammer had to fix
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/medium/chains_007.jpg

Old Style Oil Pump Chain
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/OilPumpBefore.jpg
New Style Gears
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/medium/New_Gears.JPG
Slide Show Showing steps to replace
http://www.flickr.com/photos/amsun/s...7614349959267/

senez June 13th, 2009 13:04

Honestly, there's no sense in me posting pictures of my stuff. Everything was fine...the hex shaft...the chain...everything, except for that tensioner. It's broken exactly in the same place all the others are broken. It's a wonder it didn't fail en route or at any other time.

leicaman June 13th, 2009 15:20

Sure seems like the casting for the tensioner is just not up to the task at hand.

oilhammer June 13th, 2009 15:25

Moot point now, with a proper gear drive fitted no worries :) .

Another one done yesterday, the word "wow" came up several times after I started the engine once I was done. And he did not think it was noisy (it was). :D

leicaman June 13th, 2009 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
Moot point now, with a proper gear drive fitted no worries :) .

Another one done yesterday, the word "wow" came up several times after I started the engine once I was done. And he did not think it was noisy (it was). :D

Well, you are right. I will too soon be in the chainless category!

aja8888 June 13th, 2009 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by leicaman
Well, you are right. I will too soon be in the chainless category!

Over 8,000 miles and chainless (and quieter).....;)

tdicdi June 13th, 2009 20:18

I just got back today after getting it done (yesterday, Friday).Yes, Brian is AWESOME… and the word ‘wow’ doesn’t even describe it. It went really well... Brian works with surgical precision and efficiency....he really knows what he is doing, and I felt totally comfortable letting him operate on my baby! He let me sit and watch the entire time, while chit chatting about a lot of things, mostly VWs .... it was a treat. Everyone there is so friendly and nice and helpful.... it was a great experience.
I thought my engine was quiet before…. But after hearing it after the job, I changed my mind real quick – even though my chain, tensioner, pump, etc. all came out looking pretty darn good. I think 55000 wasn’t enough to doom it, though it IS a time bomb waiting to go off. The glow plugs weren't bad either, but we put in steel ones anyway. Now I got to flash the ECU… the relay is currently disconnected till that can be done.
On the way back I felt psychologically like the car handled so much better… but that could be because I wasn’t treading on eggshells each time I gunned the engine to pass somebody on the freeway – Each time I stepped on the gas pedal, I couldn’t stop smiling! Confidence, peace of mind, and the satisfaction of knowing everything under the hood is dependable and secure!
As an added bonus Mogolf dropped in unexpectedly while I was there... he was driving through St Louis... so I got to meet him and spend some time chatting with him, too. What a great guy, and what a treat meeting folks who are intelligent, knowledgeable and so down to earth – and all share this love for VWs. Sometimes makes me wonder if VW, with their inexcusable attitude, deserve the respect of such great folks. Oh well!
The sound is the same inside the car (pretty low) but outside there is a huge difference. Now it is a healthy diesel sound, unlike earlier when it was adulterated by chain noise that made it sound more like a rattle.
Anyway, overall a very good and positive experience…. Well worth the 9.5 hour drive each way! I would NOT trust anyone else to do this job... least of all the ignoramusses at the dealership!
Thank you Brian, you are truly amazing. And MOGolf, it was really nice meeting you and chatting with you. Thanks to all of the Car Doc folks who were so helpful and gracious – particularly Mark, Debbie and Pame – they made this whole trip so pleasant.
Thanks guys, keep up the good work… you guys truly make a difference.
Raji

leicaman June 14th, 2009 05:41

I am glad it went well. I am thinking about the photos I posted earlier. I think the BHW with the stripped teeth is a poster child for how bad this design is. The photos that show the broken tensioner also rate in that category.

Reviewing the photos of epic fail made me so thankful that our dynamic duo, Oilhammer and MoGolf, got this upgrade parade on the street.

After next week, I can change my sig file to say that I am chainless....

BHarrison June 14th, 2009 10:16

Hammer, do you have part numbers or links to these parts? Also, is there a special tool needed for the A/C clutch pulley? Don't know if it's the same, but the a/c clutch pulley on one of our B4 Passats blew into pieces one day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
Engine mounts are common. Check for purplish stainage on teh bottoms where the juice leaks out.

Alternator clutch pulley. These sometimes make noise, and in some cases come apart.

Both the mounts and the pulley have updated parts available.


Benjamin June 14th, 2009 15:15

A Canadian source for parts hopefully, wahooo!

leobg June 15th, 2009 20:35

I was checking cost of parts at dealer (Canada). Just above $1,800 before taxes (2K and change taxes incl.)

I was trying to do the $$ math with parts from word impex - comes slightly cheaper, but UPS has the nasty habit to charge outrageous brokerage fees, so after currency conversion, shipping and Canadian taxes (and that brokerage) things come almost close to even..

Anyone know better source for the parts to get in Canada?

volkswagendude June 15th, 2009 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by leobg
I was checking cost of parts at dealer (Canada). Just above $1,800 before taxes (2K and change taxes incl.)

I was trying to do the $$ math with parts from word impex - comes slightly cheaper, but UPS has the nasty habit to charge outrageous brokerage fees, so after currency conversion, shipping and Canadian taxes (and that brokerage) things come almost close to even..

Anyone know better source for the parts to get in Canada?

Ya.

Just try to find a vendor who is willing to use your FedEx Account#. $9 flat brokerage fee.

UPS on the other hannd is on cloud 9 with their 3 digit at times brokerage fees. :mad:

leicaman June 16th, 2009 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by volkswagendude
Ya.

Just try to find a vendor who is willing to use your FedEx Account#. $9 flat brokerage fee.

UPS on the other hannd is on cloud 9 with their 3 digit at times brokerage fees. :mad:

I once eBayed a nice Nikon Zoom to a guy in England. He absolutely insisted on UPS. Oh boy. He had to cough out several hundred in brokerage fees ALONE. Normally I use the Postal Service In'tl priority where they don't ask for your first born in return for brokerage.

dhuddleson June 16th, 2009 08:32

leobg,

Why don't you try contacting Brandon at DCB Automotive, near Finch & 400 in Toronto. You can find his contact info in the Ontario forum. Find the topic "Ontario 04-05 Passat Balance Shaft Repairs ". He does these BS jobs, but may sell you the parts to do yourself...

earlthepearl June 17th, 2009 05:53

Finally unchained
 
The wife's Passat is finally back on the road, with her behind the wheel, and I get my 09 Jetta TDI back. We picked the car up yesterday from the guys at MF Automotive in Knoxville. What a bunch of great guys. With 180k on the odo, they helped us out with a couple other issues in addition to the BS mod. Now, with new motor mounts, axle assemblies, and torque converter, we are ready for another 180k. The wife is happy, and so am I.:)

leicaman June 17th, 2009 18:27

Today was a great day. My B5.5 too is unchained as of today by Oilhammer. I see EarlthePearl that congrats to you too is in order!

leicaman June 18th, 2009 05:20

Well now that the dust has settled, I just want you to know that Oilhammer's crew at Cardoc is one of the best repair experiences I have ever had. He was efficient. Took great obvious pride in his craft and his support staff etc. were all so very friendly. You all should be proud of your team!

I went the full deal, BS gear conversion, glow plugs, water pump, tensioner, timing belt, drive belt, motor mounts, alternator pulley etc.

First observations. My family, who has lots of riding miles under their collective seat belts, noticed the reduced noise and vibration instantly. My wife said, "I never really noticed the noise before that much, but now that it is gone I really notice the lack of it."

I observed that the car seems more like when I bought it. The car just sounds more precise and I feel better about driving it all around the USA.

Next project? Well I am going to be at the dieselgrandad GTG to get my ecm reflashed, so the glow plug relay can be hooked back up again. Oh yea and a little more power via RC-1 ;)

Oh and for you fellow owners who have not done this, I urge you to do so for peace of mine at the very least. It gets real expensive if the freaking chain blows on you according to Oilhammer.

T_D_I_POWER June 18th, 2009 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by leobg
I was checking cost of parts at dealer (Canada). Just above $1,800 before taxes (2K and change taxes incl.)

I was trying to do the $$ math with parts from word impex - comes slightly cheaper, but UPS has the nasty habit to charge outrageous brokerage fees, so after currency conversion, shipping and Canadian taxes (and that brokerage) things come almost close to even..

Anyone know better source for the parts to get in Canada?

You should instruct WI to ship using USPS to ship to Canada. It will go straight to Canada Post and thru custom with no problem and no brokerage fees etc.

leobg June 18th, 2009 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_D_I_POWER
You should instruct WI to ship using USPS to ship to Canada. It will go straight to Canada Post and thru custom with no problem and no brokerage fees etc.

With USPS I will be paying only the goods tax which is 13% here, but for sure there will be no brokerage fee. I will call them to see how much shipping via USPS will be. Thanks for the suggestion TDI Power!

leobg June 18th, 2009 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhuddleson
leobg,

Why don't you try contacting Brandon at DCB Automotive, near Finch & 400 in Toronto. You can find his contact info in the Ontario forum. Find the topic "Ontario 04-05 Passat Balance Shaft Repairs ". He does these BS jobs, but may sell you the parts to do yourself...

I am kind of afraid not to offend him by asking for the parts only. I am sure he is no autoparts store and won't appreciate this.
I was (still) considering having Brandon do the job and keep my hands clean, but work is a good chunk of the cache for this job and considering how significant it is, I am still tempted to try saving it. Huh :confused:

leobg June 18th, 2009 06:58

Hey guys/gals,

since I am not quite sure how the "marbles in blender" sound (and have no intension to reproduce the sound :)), I decided to take recording of the sound of my car. FYI - the recording is taken with plastic shield from the top of the engine taken away and the accessory belt (alternator/ps pump/etc) taken off to eliminate any other extra noises that might "spoil" the sound.
Here is the recording: http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.ph...1&ppuser=22350 it is taken with no professional equipment of any sort of course (I used my cell phone), but I think recording is pretty on the spot with the real thing.

I will appreciate experts opinion on this one!

oilhammer June 18th, 2009 07:08

You will generally hear more of the bad sounds with everything in place, the hood shut, standing outside the front of the car.

And even then, this is really a moot point since they will all need this eventually anyways.

leobg June 18th, 2009 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
You will generally hear more of the bad sounds with everything in place, the hood shut, standing outside the front of the car.

And even then, this is really a moot point since they will all need this eventually anyways.

Alright. I will take another recording following your recommendation OH! As soon as my alternator pulley shows up (thanks to this forum for helping me pinpoint this problem, I would never thought about a clutch in that pully!)

ps. forgot to mention - when I listen underneat the car - close to the area where the balance shaft module is - I think I can hear the chain, I have the feeling it doesn't glide very smooth. I don't think it is slapping yet Believe me - i know how this sounds and what it means (when fail) with my old VR6 where I had to go the whole nine yards... I don't plan going thru the same with the TDI, so I am doing the BSM as soon as possible (trying to orginize it right now).

oilhammer June 18th, 2009 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by leobg
...Believe me - i know how this sounds and what it means (when fail) with my old VR6 where I had to go the whole nine yards... I don't plan going thru the same with the TDI, so I am doing the BSM as soon as possible (trying to orginize it right now).

On no, if you ask TDI POWER the VR6 chains NEVER fail. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. When those things start making noise they slap and rattle all over the place and beat the crap out of the covers. I do not think the BHW can ever get that bad and still run. :p

leobg June 18th, 2009 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
On no, if you ask TDI POWER the VR6 chains NEVER fail. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. When those things start making noise they slap and rattle all over the place and beat the crap out of the covers. I do not think the BHW can ever get that bad and still run. :p

O - TDI POWER, believe me chain can fail! On my VR6 it happened at around 240K which is quite a lot for a car anyways. I agree not many people keep their cars that long or drive them that much. I'd love to change my car every year, but unfortunately this isn't in line with finances :). I consider myself lucky with the VR6 btw. What happened is tensioner failed and chain slipped couple of teeth on the cam of bank 1 (front). Problem happened at startup - obviously - tensioner had no enough strenght to push on the chain due to chain rail COMPLETELY worn off! Result was 3 bent exhaust valves (thanks God, they didn't fall inside the cylinders!) It took alot of work to fix, but nothing major was broken (especially cylinder head and engine block).

Chain is definitely not a life time item, at least not for people who tend to drive cars more than the waranteed kilometres, which describes many of us.

Sorry for the offtopic thing but I wanted to shout it out!

PlaneCrazy June 18th, 2009 09:40

So the real root cause question: does VW have a chain problem, or a tensioner problem? :D

I guess it doesn't matter, the result is the same, and curable by gears.

But I do wonder because timing belts also have tensioners.

oilhammer June 18th, 2009 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlaneCrazy
So the real root cause question: does VW have a chain problem, or a tensioner problem? :D

I guess it doesn't matter, the result is the same, and curable by gears.

But I do wonder because timing belts also have tensioners.

Timing belts do not have a series of endless metal links being drug across a plastic surface. It is common sense that chains' tensioners simply have a finite service life. It is just that the BHW's setup is shortened due to the fact that it is spinning at double crank speed and has a very small build for the task at hand.

And it simply does not matter how much, how often, what type of oil used, etc. They will still eventually wear down the plastic parts and get so much slack they either get noisy or simply no longer hold enough tension and jump.

You should see some of the deep grooves we find in all kinds of chain guides and tensioner shoes on all types of cars. Shoot some of the Nissans will wear them so thin they shatter and wedge in between the cam sprockets. Some of the Toyotas will wear so bad that the chain starts wearing through the aluminum timing cover into the coolant passages that go between the engine block and water pump! :eek:

T_D_I_POWER June 18th, 2009 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by leobg
With USPS I will be paying only the goods tax which is 13% here, but for sure there will be no brokerage fee. I will call them to see how much shipping via USPS will be. Thanks for the suggestion TDI Power!

I bought a pair of Tannoy Eyris DC1 speakers in Toronto last Christmas, to complete my 5-channel streo system. I shipped by Canada Post, and got it here in 2 weeks. No custom and brokerage charge etc.

All the best

dhuddleson June 18th, 2009 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by leobg
With USPS I will be paying only the goods tax which is 13% here, but for sure there will be no brokerage fee. I will call them to see how much shipping via USPS will be. Thanks for the suggestion TDI Power!

Depends on how Canada Post (CP) is feeling that day..... they are supposed to process taxes and duties on behalf of Canada Customs, so do not be surprised if Duty is charged. Now the big savings is that CP charges a brokerage processing fee of only $5.00 on a package, as opposed to the shocking variable amount that UPS, FedEx and other Couriers charge...

leicaman June 20th, 2009 09:53

You Tube Videos of a before and after BS to gear conversion
 
Here is a trio of you tubes I have created to document my Passat's Oil Pump Chain Noise. Engine was warm after a 20 mile trip. Same Camera, same fps, etc. We now have three videos. One at 44k, one at 56k and one post-op at 57k.

This was taken with 44,444 on the clock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0WMgcDJfqI
This The car prior to BS surgery in May 2009 with 56,000 on the clock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtQx3sj6_Fk
This is a post-op recording June 2009 at 57,000 of my Passat after Oilhammer
did the conversion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTQIaK-cwD4

DPM June 21st, 2009 02:54

Wow! Such an improvement. That wee chain musta been flapping around pretty loose for that amount of noise...

Route 66 June 21st, 2009 20:44

Soumds like a new engine.

PlaneCrazy June 22nd, 2009 07:55

Mine definitely sounds like the second of the three youtubes, at 111,000 miles.

leobg June 23rd, 2009 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by leicaman
Here is a trio of you tubes I have created to document my Passat's Oil Pump Chain Noise. Engine was warm after a 20 mile trip. Same Camera, same fps, etc. We now have three videos. One at 44k, one at 56k and one post-op at 57k.

This was taken with 44,444 on the clock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0WMgcDJfqI
This The car prior to BS surgery in May 2009 with 56,000 on the clock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtQx3sj6_Fk
This is a post-op recording June 2009 at 57,000 of my Passat after Oilhammer
did the conversion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTQIaK-cwD4

I am wondering why does the plastic cover look like vobbling like that (slowly). I guess it is video camera effect due to the FPS count and the normal vibration of the engine. Looks funny though! :)

Leica, do you mind doing similar recordings with the lid closed, near the cetre lower area of the nose? This is where I can clearly hear my chain gliding (grinding) over the chain guides. I know it is too late to take the "pre-surgery" recording, but the post surgery would be nice.

leobg June 23rd, 2009 06:01

On a second/third hearing, I can clearly notice the same chain noise on pre-upgrade video as mine does, yours is lauder though! This sound is definitely missing on post-upgrade - wow!

leicaman June 23rd, 2009 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by leobg
I am wondering why does the plastic cover look like vobbling like that (slowly). I guess it is video camera effect due to the FPS count and the normal vibration of the engine. Looks funny though! :)

Leica, do you mind doing similar recordings with the lid closed, near the cetre lower area of the nose? This is where I can clearly hear my chain gliding (grinding) over the chain guides. I know it is too late to take the "pre-surgery" recording, but the post surgery would be nice.

I had the camera on the lowest quality setting to not make the file monster sized. I too noticed the wobling effect, but after I closely looked full screen at the others, they too do this. So I am not too annoyed with it.

JetPuf June 29th, 2009 12:41

Hey, found this over on Bora parts if anyone is interested...
https://www.boraparts.com/index.php?cPath=21_30_155_158

rydogg June 30th, 2009 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPuf
Hey, found this over on Bora parts if anyone is interested...
https://www.boraparts.com/index.php?cPath=21_30_155_158

Excellent find!!!:) Makes me regret buying that timing belt kit last month...:(

BHarrison June 30th, 2009 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPuf
Hey, found this over on Bora parts if anyone is interested...
https://www.boraparts.com/index.php?cPath=21_30_155_158

Is this a trusted source? Can anyone vouch?

Zambee500 June 30th, 2009 06:09

Although I've never bought from them, Bora is considered trusted around here. That's a pretty good deal. $65 or so cheaper for the standard kit, plus includes shipping which is close to another $100.

TheTDIGuy June 30th, 2009 11:50

Great price!! Do you actually have these in stock, or do you obtain them on an order-by-order basis? Also, do you also have a BHW timing belt kit (incl. water pump) for sale? With the price on your balance module, I'd figure you'd have to come in with an excellent price on the timing belt kit. Thx

MOGolf June 30th, 2009 13:46

Links of known vendors of kits are posted in the first post. If there are other sources (obviously all VW dealerships are possible sources and too numerous to post), please send a PM and its information can be added to the first post.

If you have questions about vendor's ability to supply the kit or other parts, contact the vendor directly.

leicaman July 3rd, 2009 12:15

Hey MoGolf have you dicerned any differences between the gear sets of the upgrade kits that have new parts numbers? Just wondering, IIRC Oilhammer said he was using the new part number parts. Of course anything is better than that old noisy chain...

MOGolf July 3rd, 2009 14:23

No. It could just be a subtle difference such as a supplier change or perhaps a manufacturing lot. Only VW can answer for why the change part numbers/suffixes.

Mine is still holding together at 15K miles with the "old" part number of the one gear.

leicaman July 3rd, 2009 15:41

That is what I thought. Only the trolls at VW will know. Oh and btw, tommorow my contact from the home office in Germany will be here in Sheboygan and she will hear that my car is now chainless! ;)

aja8888 July 3rd, 2009 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by leicaman
That is what I thought. Only the trolls at VW will know. Oh and btw, tommorow my contact from the home office in Germany will be here in Sheboygan and she will hear that my car is now chainless! ;)

is she bringing you a check from VW to cover the replacement?:confused:

leicaman July 3rd, 2009 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888
is she bringing you a check from VW to cover the replacement?:confused:

That would be very interesting. I won't hold my breath. When I send her all the data about this issue, I eventually got a response from VWoA. However, I don't know how much of a coincidence is in the fact that a month or so after contacting her MoGolf and Oilhammer found the fix. I would venture to guess that there is no coincidence.

She is just a cog in the big VW wheel and I am sure she is pretty low in the food chain as she was on the floor putting doors on golfs and now she works in the PR office. She is just a nice person who visits this area every year.

vw4life July 3rd, 2009 18:49

Well you can tell her that VW is on the verge of having a TDI PR boondoggle here in North America. You never know what strings you pull, it might ring the bell at the top. Got to try all angles.

leicaman July 3rd, 2009 19:48

I will tell her that. I will tell her that there are many dealers (fortunately not my local dealer) are using the wrong oil in their TDI cars, etc.

v8volvo July 4th, 2009 00:09

I bought another old Volvo diesel at a "green car" dealership around here a couple days ago. They have a diesel-oriented service department as part of their operation. When I was checking out the Volvo I could not help but notice that in this small shop there were no fewer than four B5.5 Passat TDIs there needing work. I heard 3 of them run and 2 of those sounded like they were about to explode, the third was not as bad but still noisy. The 4th wouldn't run. :eek: I asked the tech, who works on many TDIs every day at this shop and knows them well, if he knew anything about the BS chain drive issue. He was clueless. None of the owners of these cars had mentioned anything to him either, presumably they don't even realize how bad their motors sound. Four ticking time bombs sitting there that are going to catch people completely by surprise when they go off.

After seeing that scene, I fear the worst is yet to come with this problem. There are so many cars out there whose owners are NOT car people and don't follow this forum, and most of those cars are getting up near failure age/mileage right now. Most techs have no idea the problem exists either, let alone being qualified to do anything about it. These B5 TDIs are about to start dropping like flies.

v8volvo July 4th, 2009 00:27

Another thought I'd add:

The sad thing is that these cars are still practically new, at most 5 years old. The ones I saw Wednesday were clearly near death but at the same time were very nice cars, clean and well-maintained, obviously with owners who cared about them and were interested in doing what it took to keep them in good shape. If they knew about the problem I figure they might do something about it, even at their own cost. But they don't, so they won't and the car will blow up. Only VW can prevent this BS thing from turning from a fringe issue that a few fanatic owners on TDIclub have taken steps to prevent into a major epidemic that hurts the TDI brand.

Obviously recall action or some kind of compensation would be ideal, but even if not that I think they have a minimum duty to notify owners that the threat exists so that they can at least be aware and take care of it themselves if they want to. As it is, VW pretends nothing is wrong, the engines blow, and the expense to the owner is way more than it woulda been if they had known and dealt with it preventatively. If awareness of the deadly oil pump failure syndrome on Passat TDIs gets around only by word of mouth, as it is doing now, it will become an urban legend about bad durability and support that affects all TDI products, like what GM had when their diesels were eating headgaskets and rods. Even after GM corrected those problems their diesels could never be considered good again. If the same happened to the TDI after so many years of good products, it would be a sad story.

Unfortunately what I have been hearing about durability and dealer manglings of the '09 CR cars makes me worry that those will be the ones that really send VW diesel in the US to the grave...

oilhammer July 4th, 2009 10:57

Yep, it is a shame we cannot have a nice mailing list of everyone in North America that owns one and we could send our own letters out. :(

Only VOA could do this, and it has become clear they are not going to do a thing...and the more time that goes by the more will be out of warranty and away from their dime.

Amazing so many people have no idea, even those who work on them. I mean the noise they make is pretty obvious. :rolleyes:

leicaman July 4th, 2009 11:01

I just finished talking with the lady from Germany who works for VW. She reports that the Phaeton production has tanked. All the small cars are going great guns. They are excited that the Polo is now going to USA. I think the Germans themselves didn't like earlier decisions.

When I told her of what VW has said on the Passat issue, she didn't seem surprised. I also said that VW is clearly mis-calculating in this circumstance at their peril. (said it in a more friendly manner of course) Mind you we were drinking beer and eating brats, so we were being social of course.

maktas July 8th, 2009 08:48

All 20,000 B5.5 owners need to be aware of this condition, I wish I could a virtual fly in VWoA's computer system to see the rate of chain failures coming into the shops. I hope there is a huge surge that will do either 1 of 2 things (or both) 1) make VW react to contain it with some kind of soft recall..2) as v8volve said will put a serious blemish on future TDI sales in N.A, especially this v6 laden with chains!

We need to spread the word, if there is no thread on vortex or passatworld, we need to make one!!

v8volvo July 8th, 2009 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by maktas
All 20,000 B5.5 owners need to be aware of this condition
<snip>

Exactly... even if VW doesn't actually do anything to remedy it, they have to at least let people be AWARE of it so they can make an educated decision on how to deal with it. People will be angry when they find out, but not nearly as angry as they would be if their car blew up and seized a turbo or engine... or failed in traffic and caused a fatal accident. :eek: If they can give the under-hood warning about using 505 01 oil and cite a possible consequence as a traffic accident, how does it jibe that they don't see the same possibility from the BS failing, which would have the same result (insufficient lubrication)??

There are a few B5.5 TDIs around the neighborhood here and I have made a point to talk to their owners when the opportunity arises. I let them know about the 3 things that will ruin the car for them (BS, glowplugs, and plastic water pump). I've spoiled 2 people's day so far doing this... but they are glad to have the bad news, rather than learning about the problems the hard way...

oilhammer July 8th, 2009 15:00

Yeah, problem is even if they DO issue a formal TSB, the dealer staff will still play the dumb card (they apparently have a whole deck full of them).

I mean, there IS a formal TSB, very plain and very simple even a 3rd grader could understand, about the glow plug update and subsequent reflash. Yet we are STILL finding dealers refusing to do anything about it.

So if they cannot even acknowledge a TSB, not sure if having one will do much anyways...but it is at least a start. But you still have to get the morons to understand that the Passat running in their bay that sounds like a chipper-shredder trying to digest gravel is most certainly NOT normal. :rolleyes:

How many of these cars in VW dealers probably get the "Meh, it's a diesel, they are supposed to sound like that" and the poor owners who THINK they are taking care of their cars are in fact riding a one way Fail train to the worst impending doom imaginable to an engine? :(

This comes on the tail of now the TSB that once again they have no clue about with 90A Bosch or Valeo alternator concerns that state to replace them with a 120A Hitachi unit. Very, VERY simple TSB...yet the dealers have no clue, you have to jump through hoops just to get them to ORDER the damn alternator called for in the TSB! And the sad thing is, the NEW alternator called for in the TSB is only $60 more than the standard 90A replacement one!!!! :mad:

leobg July 9th, 2009 15:30

Well - I have now collected all the parts (the BS kit and timing belt kit too along with the extra few things MOGolf and OH recommended. Went with the dealer for the parts, as I didn't want to try my luck importing from US (plus loonie went quite a bit down to be worth the experiment). The parts guy at the dealer commented "you must really love your car!" I replied it is not the "love" thing, but I just want to have the car (as it won't be a 'car' anymore once this thing fails and spells havoc all across the engine bay).
They gave me very nice discount without me asking - I was plesantly surprised!
My biggest surprise was they had the BS module IN STOCK!!! Wired - ha? They kept claiming they've heard nothing about the issue... Anyways. If I get a chance I will perform the upgrade over the weekend.

aja8888 July 9th, 2009 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by leobg
They kept claiming they've heard nothing about the issue... Anyways.

You really mean they "know about the issue, but don't want to bring it to anyone's attention for fear of having to do these under warranty."


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