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-   -   BHW Balance Shaft Module replacement (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=233651)

vw4life January 13th, 2009 13:21

Dick, when is your upgrade scheduled to take place? Please advise us of the capabilities of your local shop after the car has been returned.

aja8888 January 13th, 2009 13:31

DickSilver: have you received your balance shaft kit from Impex yet? I have one on order but they appear to be having problems obtaining the parts.

Thanks,

Tony

outthere January 13th, 2009 17:42

Mine goes to www.4induktion.com on monday. Ordered the kit from Impex (thru Induktion). Should arrive tomorrow (they are across town from Impex).

Does it make sense to measure before after vibration with a vid clip of a cup of coffee at idle?

I get slight steady oscillations now. I dont think I have a failed or failing BS and I dont hear any noise. Not even convinced I couldnt wait another year. But I'd like to hang onto the car, I like the ride, don't know what I'd replace it with that I'd like more, and cost the same. And it might leave me in the boondocks if it fails.

Worth the investment of 2-3k to go another 100k. (Let's hope & pray...)

DickSilver January 14th, 2009 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888
DickSilver: have you received your balance shaft kit from Impex yet? I have one on order but they appear to be having problems obtaining the parts.

Thanks,

Tony

aja8888: I spoke with Impex yesterday. My order with them was placed about a week ago. They said they had six geared BS module kits coming in; they were in Los Angeles and would arrive at Impex in Maryland this Friday 16 Jan, and subsequently ship out to me. They said that the six kits were all they had in the pipeline right now, and more would have to be ordered direct from Germany. I forgot to ask if all six were already sold to customers.

There is one thing I like about dealing with Impex. The folk who answer the phone are real USA people (English as a first language) who are knowledgeable about cars, not some poor ignorant call-center people.

aja8888 January 14th, 2009 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DickSilver
aja8888: I spoke with Impex yesterday. My order with them was placed about a week ago. They said they had six geared BS module kits coming in; they were in Los Angeles and would arrive at Impex in Maryland this Friday 16 Jan, and subsequently ship out to me. They said that the six kits were all they had in the pipeline right now, and more would have to be ordered direct from Germany. I forgot to ask if all six were already sold to customers.

There is one thing I like about dealing with Impex. The folk who answer the phone are real USA people (English as a first language) who are knowledgeable about cars, not some poor ignorant call-center people.

Thanks Dick; I spoke with them yesterday also and was told there were 9 kits in route (but maybe he looked at the "6" upside down for me)..:D

I put my order in on the 6th of January and at that time was told they were expected on the 9th. But at least they are in route. Hopefully, we are on the top of the list.

Thanks again,

Tony

Scott_DeWitt January 14th, 2009 13:18

Does anyone mind posting part numbers?

aja8888 January 14th, 2009 13:21

http://www.worldimpex.com/images/spacer.gif

Scott: Here they are.


IMPEX SKU # 935619


BHW MODULE REPAIR KIT


Included In Kit
03G 103 295 Q – differential case with gears, shafts and oil pump
03G 105 212 C – replacement gear for crankshaft
03G 103 305 C – balance shaft drive gear
4- N 911 213 01 – bolts to attach balance shaft drive gear
5- N 106 014 02 – balance shaft bolts
N 910 512 01 – balance shaft bolt
N 911 234 01 – bolt for balance shaft front near drive gear
N 909 775 02 – bolt for balance shaft front near oil pump
038 103 085 E – crankshaft seal
045 105 229 – crankshaft pulley bolt
2 -N 908 897 01 – bearing cap bolts

Thanks,

Tony (and others)

Scott_DeWitt January 14th, 2009 13:26

Thanks I should get a quote back tomorrow.

Scott_DeWitt January 15th, 2009 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott_DeWitt
Thanks I should get a quote back tomorrow.

I've got a price from Europe, there are plenty there, and I can do an essentially at cost deal of $1225.00, with a 2 week delivery. I can get the parts in 2-3 days at a pretty large up charge. This price is heavily dependent upon the exchange rate so I can't guarantee pricing until funds are received.

vw4life January 15th, 2009 08:37

Group buy? I guess you are already at cost price...your prices include shipping?

Scott_DeWitt January 15th, 2009 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by vw4life
Group buy? I guess you are already at cost price...your prices include shipping?

If there is a quantity order I can negotiate with my vendor in Europe. but any additional discounts will have to come from them.

There will also be a bit of cost savings with shipping multiple units.

The price I mentioned above includes shipping from Europe, shipping to you guys would be additional.

sschnath January 15th, 2009 13:37

After giving the matter some additional consideration, I've decided not to have the BS work done proactively.


I'm at 195K miles now and the car will be 5 years old in June. I'm thinking/hoping that if I were going to have a problem in the BS area it would have surfaced by now and that the problems being seen now are limited to a specific lot or lots that I'm not a part of.


Also, while there are definitely problems in the field, we don't know yet how widespread this really is. I know there is another thread in this forum where we're attempting to gather that data but I don't know whether we'll ever be able to gather enough data to have a statistically valid population to draw conclusions from.


I know that all chains will eventually break but perhaps by the time mine lets go, I'll be ready to let go of the car. I had hoped to get 400K out of it and that may or may not happen but it's a goal, not a requirement. Should I end up with a broken part, I'd have to make the repair ROI determination at that time.


While it's possible this is a design defect, it's also possible that VW had already decided to make some improvements in the BS area due to manufacturing cost reduction goals or for future functionality but which have no functional impact on this particular engine. The current failures could just be a matter of coincidence. I work for a computer hardware manufacturer and I've seen stranger things happen.


Also, if VW knew there was going to be massive fallout from a known design defect, wouldn't they have positioned more parts in North America ahead of time to head off the inevitable complaints that would result from cars being out of service for extended periods due to part availability? Maybe I'm giving them too much credit.


I feel like if I spend the money now I'll just have that nagging suspicion that I spent the money unnecessarily. I know others would rather not have the nagging suspicion that they're driving an engine that could fail at any moment and I totally understand that. It's just that with the data that's available so far, the former suspicion is carrying more weight for me than the latter.


As this situation evolves my opinion may change. I just hope it's not due to first hand experience!

oilhammer January 15th, 2009 14:01

LMAO... :rolleyes:

dlai January 15th, 2009 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
LMAO... :rolleyes:

x2...

Lug_Nut January 15th, 2009 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sschnath
I'm at 195K miles now and the car will be 5 years old in June.

At 200k you should be thinking about at least replacing the chain and tensioner anyway. I don't care if it's a cam chain on a small block Chevy, 200k miles is too close to 1/2 life. And this chain is no where near as robust as a sbc cam chain.
Each link has 8 pieces (1/2 link has 4). The chain is many links long. When just one of those pieces fail in this engine.....:eek:

I had a similar debate with myself, but I know chains wear and stretch. I know I'd be replacing it once, maybe twice while I expect to own this car. The labor of replacing a chain and tensioner or installing a geared drive is nearly a wash. The price difference between the chain parts and the geared module and parts is several hundred dollars, but it's a one time and done situation.
I weighed the options and after deliberation I'm in for the gear.

MOGolf January 15th, 2009 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by sschnath
While it's possible this is a design defect, it's also possible that VW had already decided to make some improvements in the BS area due to manufacturing cost reduction goals or for future functionality but which have no functional impact on this particular engine.

Not very likely. The engine is not in production anymore. No cost savings for an engine they don't produce. They designed and produced retrofit parts for every engine design they made with chain driven balance shaft modules. They don't all use the same parts, either. Obviously, this was a significant investment in engineering and manufacturing parts because they will all fail.


Quote:

Originally Posted by sschnath
Also, if VW knew there was going to be massive fallout from a known design defect, wouldn't they have positioned more parts in North America ahead of time to head off the inevitable complaints that would result from cars being out of service for extended periods due to part availability?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sschnath
Maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

Definitely too much credit.

20,000 units x $1000 (round numbers for est. parts costs, shipping and storing to them) = $20,000,000 in cost until somebody buys the parts. That's a significant number to invest in a market so insignficant to them (based on units sold).

abctdi January 16th, 2009 06:57

195k is definitely an outlier, consider yourself lucky.
You should probably do something besides nothing at the next TB interval, sschnath.

blaz January 17th, 2009 19:13

Is there any way this thread can be made a sticky?

MoGolf's first post in this thread, at least, should be readily available without having to use the search function.

aja8888 January 19th, 2009 15:09

Has ANYBODY actually recieved the balance shaft kit set up from World Impex yet? I have had one on order since the 6th of the month with two ship promise dates, both of which were unfulfilled. Now Impex tells me in an e-mail that they ask *daily* with WVOA and only pass along what they are told, which is not told to me.

Is this a mistake to order with Impex seeing they CHARGED may credit card for the $1300+ the day I placed the order?:mad:

Personally, I have a feeling that Impex has no clue when this stuff will show up.

Lug_Nut January 19th, 2009 16:56

I was kind'a hoping O-H would do the same, hit my card for the parts this month and the labor and incidentals next, just to spread out the pain.
That, and by me paying for parts now, they're mine and not to be sold to another before I get there.
Whatever... Only a few more weeks to bite my nails in trepidation.

oilhammer January 19th, 2009 17:03

I would have gotten more of them before Impex would have. They are all coming through VW parts, and that is where the holdup is. That is why I keep telling people who ask do NOT let anyone charge you for parts they have no idea when they will get in.

I am still waiting on some bolts and one gear to complete the 6 sets I have in stock. And I have 10 more sets on order (been that way since late last year).

aja8888 January 19th, 2009 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
I would have gotten more of them before Impex would have. They are all coming through VW parts, and that is where the holdup is. That is why I keep telling people who ask do NOT let anyone charge you for parts they have no idea when they will get in.

I am still waiting on some bolts and one gear to complete the 6 sets I have in stock. And I have 10 more sets on order (been that way since late last year).

So, what do you suggest I do at this point? I would like to save a trip to St Louis in favor of having the work done in Ft. Worth, which is 600 miles closer. Since I don't have any parts from Impex, I can call them and cancel the order and get a refund with no problem, I am sure.

But what do I do about parts then? Looks like you are committed with six sets and cars lined up. Our local VW dealer (only one I tried) may as well be a Dairy Queen as far as these parts go.

Scott DeWitt reports (above) he feels he can have parts in two weeks from date of order. Maybe I should give him a try getting parts? Or, should I hang loose for another week or so and see if Impex comes up with them? I'm open for suggestions at this point (and also at the mercy of the parts Gods)!

My haste to get the parts is also driven by my wife being in California for the next ten days which would make it easier for me to put the car up for the work.

oilhammer January 19th, 2009 17:24

All I can tell you is I would not give anyone a dime until the parts are in your hand (or in your engine).

I can add you to the lengthy list of people I have waiting, many of which would laugh at a paltry 600 mile trip ;) .

All 6 of my current ones are spoken for. I have not yet started taking reservations in ernest for the next batch, BUT I will do my best to get them done as I can get the parts.

They only slated 12 to come in the country initially. I got 9. So the other 3 went somewhere and there are supposedly 22 more setups to be coming into the country. Any dealer can get on the parts network and check the warehouses for part numbers. Most of my stuff came via New Jersey which as I understand is the port-of-entry for most US parts sourcing from Germany.

I would be doing one a week, possibly more, if I only had all the parts.

whitedog January 19th, 2009 17:31

I just have to wonder if there is someone at VW looking at this sudden increase in orders for these parts and saying, "***, Mate?"

aja8888 January 19th, 2009 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitedog
I just have to wonder if there is someone at VW looking at this sudden increase in orders for these parts and saying, "***, Mate?"

Personally, I doubt that. Those folks at VW could care less about us on this side of the pond, and *us* (the operative word) are the TDI owners.

oilhammer January 19th, 2009 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitedog
I just have to wonder if there is someone at VW looking at this sudden increase in orders for these parts and saying, "***, Mate?"

Yep. That is EXACTLY what happened. And in the response one of us got from VOA they stated that was their first clue that something was up...a sudden jump in a certain group of parts. Even before any letters were sent out. KCMike could elaborate on this possibly.

aja8888 January 19th, 2009 18:00

FWIW, I just sent a cancellation request to Impex for my BS parts order which was placed 1/6/09. I also requested they reverse the charge on my credit card.

DickSilver January 19th, 2009 18:22

Impex told me today that they have shipped one of the 6 geared BS kits that they originally ordered (and sold) just today. My order was placed 09 Jan. They are getting in minor parts to complete the kits piecemeal. Apparently they have received the six geared balance shaft modules. They were told that their next order of BS modules will only ship from Deutschland in late February.

aja8888 January 19th, 2009 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DickSilver
Impex told me today that they have shipped one of the 6 geared BS kits that they originally ordered (and sold) just today. My order was placed 09 Jan. They are getting in minor parts to complete the kits piecemeal. Apparently they have received the six geared balance shaft modules. They were told that their next order of BS modules will only ship from Deutschland in late February.

You certainly are speaking with someone other than me. I was told (today) that none are in and the parts were (are) in California and that they will fill the orders when they get the parts, whenever that is. The sales person said that "all they are doing is repeating what VWOA has told them"

Plus, Califonia is not the port of entry for parts coming in from Germany, according to OH.

outthere January 19th, 2009 21:09

Mine is up on the rack getting its BS transplanted. I ordered the parts through the shop doing the work, thinking they probably spend plenty with impex and would have more juice than I would in the parts queue.

Will post photos of the adventure when its all back together, getting lots done while its up in the air.

The expensive part of the job may be the R36 wheels I fell in lust with.
Must.Resist.:D

aja8888 January 19th, 2009 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by outthere
Mine is up on the rack getting its BS transplanted. I ordered the parts through the shop doing the work, thinking they probably spend plenty with impex and would have more juice than I would in the parts queue.

Will post photos of the adventure when its all back together, getting lots done while its up in the air.

The expensive part of the job may be the R36 wheels I fell in lust with.
Must.Resist.:D

You are probably right. All I have gotten is a run around from Impex. I wish I could post the string of e-mails I have recieved from them in the last two + weeks.

DickSilver January 20th, 2009 05:01

I dunno why Impex is getting their BS kit stuff routed thru Los Angeles either. Nor does Impex, apparently! They said last week that their BS kits had arrived on the USA East Coast, gone to LA, and were expected at Impex (back in Maryland) yesterday or today.

Definitely the run-around! Maybe from more than one source!

KCMike January 20th, 2009 13:07

VW compiles information from a variety of sources, but relies heavily on objective information such as an increase in parts ordered, warranty claims, dealer repair incidents and failed parts it can analyze in house.

outthere January 21st, 2009 16:22

My BS transplant is complete thanx to www.4induktion.com in Hanover, MD.

Great guys who communicate well, what a nice change from typical dealership service where the guy answering the phone has no idea who you are or when you can pick up your car.

The old module w/ chain drive looked fine, no visible wear. If anyone is interested in a good deal on a chain and module feel free to PM me. The car feels and rides better than new.

If you are on the East Coast induktion may be an option to consider- maybe 2-3 miles to Amtrak/BWI so easy to drop the car and get a cab/bike ride to the train/plane/rental car. I have about 550 miles left on my 100k mile warranty so driving to St. Louis didnt seem to be a good use of miles/time.

Again many thanks to all who figured this out and shared the info.

Topolog January 21st, 2009 19:05

Thanks a lot for the update and for finding a competent local shop that can do the job. Now, saving of money for BS upgrade begins...

Quote:

Originally Posted by outthere
My BS transplant is complete thanx to www.4induktion.com in Hanover, MD.

Great guys who communicate well, what a nice change from typical dealership service where the guy answering the phone has no idea who you are or when you can pick up your car.

The old module w/ chain drive looked fine, no visible wear. If anyone is interested in a good deal on a chain and module feel free to PM me. The car feels and rides better than new.

If you are on the East Coast induktion may be an option to consider- maybe 2-3 miles to Amtrak/BWI so easy to drop the car and get a cab/bike ride to the train/plane/rental car. I have about 550 miles left on my 100k mile warranty so driving to St. Louis didnt seem to be a good use of miles/time.

Again many thanks to all who figured this out and shared the info.


leicaman January 21st, 2009 19:39

Did you examine the chain tensioner? That baby usually really gets worn according to what MoGolf discovered on his unit.

oilhammer January 22nd, 2009 04:17

They all have some normal grooves in them from the chain, but it is when stuff suddenly BREAKS that causes all the damage.

It's like this Escort we just had in here. Owner was driving one day, running fine. Ran to the store, came out 10 minutes later, started the engine, and a valve seat fell out of the head. No warning. No noise beforehand. Just instant catastrophe. Of course the Escort 1.9L engine is known for this, just like we now know the BHW engine is known for chain/tensioner failure.

That is why I stand by my thinking that ALL of these engines NEED this upgrade done, and looking at still-intact parts won't really tell you much of anything. And there still seems to be some gray areas on noise-to-failure, as some engines have been REALLY noisy but still intact at 100k+ miles, and others have broken and worn holes through the engine with (as the owners state) no warning. The one guy did not even know anything was wrong until he went to change the oil and noticed a chunk broke out of the oil pan/chain cover! :eek: My gut instinct is that the engine almost had to be making some noise beforehand, but who knows???

senez January 22nd, 2009 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by outthere
My BS transplant is complete thanx to www.4induktion.com in Hanover, MD.

Great guys who communicate well, what a nice change from typical dealership service where the guy answering the phone has no idea who you are or when you can pick up your car.

The old module w/ chain drive looked fine, no visible wear. If anyone is interested in a good deal on a chain and module feel free to PM me. The car feels and rides better than new.

If you are on the East Coast induktion may be an option to consider- maybe 2-3 miles to Amtrak/BWI so easy to drop the car and get a cab/bike ride to the train/plane/rental car. I have about 550 miles left on my 100k mile warranty so driving to St. Louis didnt seem to be a good use of miles/time.

Again many thanks to all who figured this out and shared the info.

Any word on the price they did the job for?

Skivvies January 22nd, 2009 06:50

I finally got most of the parts in yesterday from the dealer minus the crank gear and some bolts. I ordered them last month just before World Impex put together their kit. When I mentioned the price difference at the dealer, they were nice enough to knock 10% off my order! This dealer (VW of Orange Park) has been very nice to deal with, at least their parts department, and have put "car down" rushes on items so they all arrive close to the same time. Time to start opening up the wagon.

oilhammer January 22nd, 2009 06:58

You are missing the same parts I am I bet to complete the last 4 sets I have. The 4 little bolts that hold the small gear to the BS module and the big gear that goes on the crank.

I just called, and there are currently 61 of those little bolts on backorder and the 'estimated delivery date' at the New Jersey warehouse is 3-17-09 :rolleyes:

maktas January 22nd, 2009 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilhammer
You are missing the same parts I am I bet to complete the last 4 sets I have. The 4 little bolts that hold the small gear to the BS module and the big gear that goes on the crank.

I just called, and there are currently 61 of those little bolts on backorder and the 'estimated delivery date' at the New Jersey warehouse is 3-17-09 :rolleyes:

If you can find the specs on the bolt (size, length, pitch) why can't you find an alternative?

oilhammer January 22nd, 2009 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by maktas
If you can find the specs on the bolt (size, length, pitch) why can't you find an alternative?

Posted that info in this thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...62#post2429562

Knock yourself out, I have had no luck. Fairly specialized bolt, not a hardware store item. :(

DickSilver January 22nd, 2009 11:50

As of this afternoon, Impex has gotten the missing VW bolt, and has my kit in a box waiting for UPS pick up. So as of next week, I will be able to schedule the job with Fast Enough Performance. Nearly there!!

cspeter8 January 22nd, 2009 17:11

The order I placed with World Impex on Jan 8 also shipped today - I just got the UPS email with the tracking number. Still trying to decide on a shop to do the work... This morning I spoke with Franko the owner at Prospect Foreign Car Center - I've heard only positive stuff from customers at the shop on the several occasions I've stopped in to look around, and found only positive reviews for them on the net. They have abot 20 established customers with Volkswagens, have done a number of timing belts on VW, have worked with removing crankshaft sprokets on a volvo (but never a VW) so they say they already have that sproket puller with the /3 and /5 jaws - one of the more expensive sst's on the list. They have been there for 20 years at the same location. Franco says he doesn't know how much it will cost me labor-wise because he has never done this job before. That's reasonable, right? But it does make me uneasy - ideally a mechanic would know because they did it before, but I can't have everything. I asked for references of some other folks who had similar work done, and he wasn't comfortable doing that. Sounded like he never gave out references for customers before so he didn't want to start now - the good reputation he has, without advertising, he says was all he needed to grow his business (my loose paraphrase).

I like the location of this place ... it is on the bus line I take to get to work, about 20 minutes drive from my house. I could drop the car off and easily pedal back home on my bicycle, while the wife is away for a week visiting the inlaws next month... Should I?

Have any mechanics ever done a phone consultatoin with OilHammer about this procedure, like if a surprise comes up? I was wondering if the willingness to consult with the expert should be a criteria in selecting a shop to do this.

oilhammer January 22nd, 2009 17:24

I get so many phone calls a day I have a tough time getting my work done. However I try and help everyone I can, but honestly the writeup that MOGolf and I did (well, HE did..I just worked on the car) has pretty much all the information in it. It is pretty comprehensive.

I am still sticking with 8 hours labor, and this is a pretty fair number. This is based simply on book time for the water pump and oil pump. I think the water pump/timing belt job is 4.6, and the oil pump is 2.9. Then add in the stuff dealing with the crank gear and that is where I get 8 hours.

Keep in mind I had done 7 chain modules before I did the first gear module install, if someone is doing this from scratch the first time through I would fully expect it to take over 8 hours to do correctly.

leicaman January 23rd, 2009 01:13

Here is the technical bulletin that Oilhammer discovered that got everybody in B5.5 TDI land down the geared path and away from the chains of motor mayhem. I cleaned up one ugly original and added one of Oilhammer's photos to help illustrate it. There is also the parts list he provided.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/BHW...pGear_TPI1.pdf

KALaBenne January 23rd, 2009 10:58

Thanks oilhammer and leicaman!

Tom_B January 23rd, 2009 11:42

Nice job leicaman, that's very helpful and informative. Just a suggestion: One never knows how your document will get distributed or used. You may wish to consider re-inserting the original "page 4 of 4" to keep the original document intact, then have an additional edited page with your photo and somehow clearly state/distinguish that your photo and edits are not part of the original technical bulletin. I'm not a lawyer or implying anything legal, but I have experienced unintended consequences with documents. Thanks again all.



(We're at 78k miles and keeping our fingers crossed to 100k, no obvious noise yet.)

leicaman January 23rd, 2009 11:47

Thanks for your suggestion. Here is the document in its original form for pages 1-4. Page 5 is the separate parts list. Page 6 features photo showing both types of balance shaft modules side by side along with gears and bolts via oilhammer.

The other doc has been purged and the below is the only one now available.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/BHW...pGear_TPI1.pdf

blaz January 25th, 2009 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by leicaman
Thanks for your suggestion. Here is the document in its original form for pages 1-4. Page 5 is the separate parts list. Page 6 features photo showing both types of balance shaft modules side by side along with gears and bolts via oilhammer.

The other doc has been purged and the below is the only one now available.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/BHW...pGear_TPI1.pdf

A suggestion: If MOGolf editted his original post in this thread to include this link, all the relevant info will be in one place...

leicaman January 25th, 2009 05:32

FYI here is a second version. This one only has the four page TPI that was the basis of the fix. No parts list or photos of the two different pump assemblies are included in this one. Both of the pdfs are available:

Short version:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/BHW...I-original.pdf

Longer with parts/illustration version:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/BHW...pGear_TPI1.pdf

jasonTDI January 25th, 2009 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888
You are probably right. All I have gotten is a run around from Impex. I wish I could post the string of e-mails I have recieved from them in the last two + weeks.

Not to doubt you and your angst for not getting the parts but they get the same from VW. they will tell you what they are told. It's that simple....Seriously. They are stand up guys.

aja8888 January 25th, 2009 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonTDI
Not to doubt you and your angst for not getting the parts but they get the same from VW. they will tell you what they are told. It's that simple....Seriously. They are stand up guys.

Stand up guys? School is out on that for me. And I won't go into the details on why I got frustrated from a lack of response(s). Another thing I did not like was that they charged my credit card for $1345.00 immediately, knowing full well they had no idea when they could ship me the parts.

It took me three or four days, two e-mails and one phone call to get the charge reversed and cancel the order.

Every online retailer I do business with will NOT CHARGE my card until the order ships.

TDIJetta99 January 25th, 2009 11:55

ok I just looked over the PDF and I'm confident doing this procedure.. no problem.. I'm missing a few of the tools, which I will get if someone needs this job done.. I'm guessing I'll have the same trouble getting the parts as everyone else though

volkswagendude January 25th, 2009 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888
Every online retailer I do business with will NOT CHARGE my card until the order ships.

+1 That is how it should always be.

MOGolf January 25th, 2009 17:47

Before this thread gets too cluttered with comments that are not related to the replacement procedure :rolleyes: , here are pictures of the alternate puller suggested by ScotR.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/4283/medium/T10392.jpg

And the pressure plate that comes with it (use instead of 30-11). Note that it fits into the crank pulley bolt hole and has an o-ring to provide friction to hold it there.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/4283/medium/T10392-1.jpg

This tool is installed over the end of the crankshaft. The diameter of the opening in the "bottom" is just big enough for the crankshaft. The pulling legs are meant to fit into the holes of the replacement gear. They are not spaced for the existing sprocket on the crankshaft. They need to be ground and shaped a little to fit the hole spacing.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/4283/me...10392-base.jpg

The pressure screw has a 24mm head whereas the T40001 has a 19mm head. The counterholding hex on the body is 32mm.

Now I need a volunteer to try this out on. I know one other member obtained one of these and may use it soon.

DickSilver January 26th, 2009 16:31

I received my UPS shipment from Impex early this evening. One well-taped box with the geared balance shaft module in a very flimsy VW/Audi box inside, and all the other parts, each in its own bag. All checked on the Impex list, PLUS what looks like a new timing pulley, 038-105-263-F. Gotta check that one with my mechanics at Fast Enough Performance in Lexington Wednesday morning.

MOGolf January 26th, 2009 16:36

That is the part number for the crankshaft timing belt pulley. There should be no need to replace it, but the 045 105 229 bolt that holds it on gets replaced.

DickSilver January 26th, 2009 17:33

MOGolf - As I examine the Bentley manual and the BHW engine BS Module replacement that you and Oilhammer authored, I interpret that when the toothed (timing) belt crankshaft pulley is replaced, the engine must be at #1 cyl TDC exactly, and that the pulley is held in place with tool T10050. Then the new bolt 045 105 229 is torqued to spec. There appears to be no keyway or other pinning device: the toothed belt pulley is just held by friction under the torqued-down bolt. Am I right? Do I make sense?

MOGolf January 26th, 2009 17:51

The pulley is not replaced, it is reused and reinstalled. The crankshaft has a flat spot. The pulley has a D shape on the back to fit the crankshaft.

The T10050 is NOT used to counterhold the crankshaft. Do not have it in place while tightening the bolt. I recommend the Metalnerd Crank Yank tool to counterhold the crankshaft.

The engine is set to TDC at the proper time of removing the timing belt. It remains there throughout the procedure. If properly held in position while removing/installing the bolt, the crank won't move far. It can be realigned and the T10050 reinstalled for belt installation after the bolt is tightened.

It would be a safe practice to install the timing belt with the crank pulley bolt reasonably tight. Once the belt is installed, and locking tools removed, the final torque could be applied to the crank bolt. This would ensure that there is no chance of turning the crank too far without the camshaft turning.

DickSilver January 29th, 2009 16:25

I was delayed a full day by the big ice & snow storm, but this morning all the main roads were cleared and I was able to get my 2004 B5.5V driven to Fast Enough Performance for the geared BS replacement. Tomorrow, maybe, I'll have an improved car!

jennogle January 30th, 2009 13:56

I finally got my car back!
 
As I posted before, my car's chain broke on November 22nd at a little over 80,000 miles. Due to lack of parts availability, I finally got it back just one week ago (January 23rd). That's TWO MONTHS without my car. :mad: Even scarier is the cost of the repair (including replacing the turbo and other parts damaged by the broken chain) came to over $4500! Ugh.

My mechanic (MF Auto in Knoxville) did an excellent job, and the car is now running great again, but I can't say I will recover any time soon. I urge any of you who are on the fence about not having this repair done preventatively to THINK TWICE.

Jenn
Silver 2005 Passat GLS TDI Wagon

oilhammer January 30th, 2009 14:05

don't stop now!
 
Jenn, you need to see this thread and make sure you let VOA know about your problem, and SAVE ALL YOUR OLD PARTS!!!!

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=234994

jennogle January 30th, 2009 14:10

Talking to VW
 
Yup, I am working on a letter to VW now. Matt saved the old parts, both for me and to show other customers what can happen to their cars. He also took pictures of my car before he made the repairs. I plan to send the complete invoice, photos, and letter to anyone at VW or elsewhere who will listen.

Jenn

deming January 31st, 2009 07:51

Here is the $64,000 or in Jenn's case the $4500 question----

At what point should we have this procedure done ?

We have two 05 Passat TDI wagons and thus far they have both been good cars for us. They both have the VW extended service contracts for 7 years or 100,000 miles and we purchased both of them new. I change the motor oil every 7000 miles using 505.01 motor oil and we maintain them well. One car has 30,000 miles and the other has almost 40,000 miles.

My fiance says we should just drive them until they blow and then make VW extended warranty fix them. We all know the probelm with that scenario.

Do we bite the bullet and take them down to Oilhammer and spend $3000 per car or do we trade one of them off and say the heck with it.

Jenn just spent $4500 on her car and has been without the use of her car for quite some time. That is a big chunk of change!

If VW corporate would provide me all of the parts Oilhammer will need for the updates (at no $$ charge), on both of our 2005 TDI cars, I would gladly pay the labor. I can eat $3000 in labor, but VW should step up to the plate and at least cover and provide the parts.

Dieses issue ist ein GroBe Problem for VW and fur mich!

Thanks
Deming

aja8888 January 31st, 2009 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennogle
Yup, I am working on a letter to VW now. Matt saved the old parts, both for me and to show other customers what can happen to their cars. He also took pictures of my car before he made the repairs. I plan to send the complete invoice, photos, and letter to anyone at VW or elsewhere who will listen.

Jenn

It will be interesting to see what parts were put in Jenn's car. Another chain drive setup? Updated gear setup?

leicaman January 31st, 2009 08:23

I wrote her and she replied she has the upgraded gear unit.

Sprocket January 31st, 2009 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by deming
Here is the $64,000 or in Jenn's case the $4500 question----

At what point should we have this procedure done ?

We have two 05 Passat TDI wagons and thus far they have both been good cars for us. They both have the VW extended service contracts for 7 years or 100,000 miles and we purchased both of them new. I change the motor oil every 7000 miles using 505.01 motor oil and we maintain them well. One car has 30,000 miles and the other has almost 40,000 miles.

My fiance says we should just drive them until they blow and then make VW extended warranty fix them. We all know the probelm with that scenario.

Thanks
Deming

I'm kinda in the same boat. I have the extended warranty as well and have just over 90k miles. I'm a sales rep and am on the road constantly. Unfortunately, I don't have another car that I can use. If I did, I'd park the Passat for the time being. I'm waiting for Oilhammer to get his next shipment of parts in so I can high tail it to him and get this taken care of. My situation is that the car is making noise, vibrates, & rattles like crazy. I'm fully expecting the extended warranty to cover the cost of the BS replacement. No, the chain has not broken and caused severe damage yet... but, I have all of the symptoms so something is obviously wrong with my car. They should cover it and pay for it while the repair bill will be substantially less than waiting for it to completely fail and pay more. I believe Route 66 had his replaced under the warranty and the chain had not broken either.

jennogle January 31st, 2009 09:30

Parts I had replaced/upgraded...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888
It will be interesting to see what parts were put in Jenn's car. Another chain drive setup? Updated gear setup?

Here is a list of parts that were replaced/upgraded on my car, as well as the labor costs. Note that some of these were "collateral damage" due to the chain failing. The most expensive part damaged was the turbo. I was "lucky" my car failed in my driveway, not out on the road, or my entire engine would very likely have been damaged beyond repair. This might help some of you who are on the fence trying to decide whether to wait till their car fails or get the work done preemptively.

Oil Filters (2) $24.00
Sealant & Shop Supplies $30.00
Front Crank Seal $12.00
BS Module $1324.00
Gears $150.00
Bolts $12.00
Timing Belt Roller $50.00
Tensioner Roller $110.00
Timing Belt $90.00
Water Pump $95.00
Coolant $39.00
Oil Filter Gasket $9.00
Oil (10) $70.00
Turbo Charger $1100.00
Turbo Gaskets $30.00

Total Parts: $3130.00
Total Labor (14 hours): $1120.00
(+Tax) = $4500.00

oilhammer January 31st, 2009 09:47

I am thinking most extended warranty companies will NOT pay for this repair as an upgrade for prevention, some *might* cover it IF it breaks. I would doubt many would though. We deal with extended warranty companies all the time, most of them are a joke and just suck money from you for no good reason.

The last 3 issues we had come through that were NOT covered:

BMW inline 6 cylinder breather upgrade, these freeze up and allow the crankcase pressure to build up so high as to fracture the plastic valve cover, which is what happened on this X5 in the single digit weather we had.

Passat W8 engine, left cam phaser stuck full advanced, so left bank's intake valves are open WAY sooner than they should be at lower RPMs, car is virtually undriveable and it requires engine removal to fix.

Toyota 1AZ-FE engine head bolts strip out of the cylinder block, causing a nice coolant leak that looks like a simple head gasket, only to find upon disassembly the block has little to no head bolt threads left in it, and requires a new block :eek: .

Basically, in every case, the engine pretty much needs to have a 'failure of an internally lubricated part' which means the sucker almost has to throw a rod out the side of the block.:rolleyes:

Now in the case of the BHW, technically the chain drives the oil pump, and usually 'oil pump' is in fact listed as a covered item. But I cannot make that decision.

leicaman January 31st, 2009 10:10

One thing that may force them to pay for the upgrade is the fact that the chain-driven oil pump part is no longer produced or available, so the new part will have to be used. My 2 cents

deming January 31st, 2009 11:38

Oilhammer,

Would you be willing to ask VW "Real Driver" some questions on my behalf?

What would you reccommend we do with our two Passats?

If I could get real driver to pay for a big hunk or a majority of the parts; I would be willing to cover the Labor. If this thing lets go it will or could cost them significantly more money.

Car one has 30,000 miles and Car two has 40,000. We like these cars, but this is a hard pill to swallow. I just do not know what to do in this case.

I would like to tell you to order me up the needed BS related parts for at least one car if not both cars.

Thanks
Ben

oilhammer January 31st, 2009 12:10

Ben, my knee-jerk reaction is you have a little more time than the rest of us, with only 30k and 40k miles.

I would be glad to look into or talk to anyone for you, through the shop. You can contact me via PM if you like.

deming January 31st, 2009 13:49

Oilhammer,

Thank you. It may mean the difference between keeping the car (s) or dumping them. We would like to keep at least one TDI Passat. We like the cars. The warranties are the VW "Real Driver" extended warranties.

What information would you need to make a call for me on my behalf?

The 40,000 mile car is loud and rattles like a bag of stove pipes.
Nothing like the 30,000 mile car. I am a "car guy" where Jenn is not.
Neither of us want anymore problems. If "Real Driver" wants to pay for parts, then we would be willing to cover labor costs at your shop.

VW AG can then reimburse us down the road for the labor expense if the letter writing campaign goes anywhere. I am not going to hold my breathe with VW and I certainly would rather pay $3000 in labor than $6000 for the whole deal.

Thanks in advance,
Deming
Illinois

Route 66 February 2nd, 2009 03:26

I could see VW giving customers $1000.00-$2000.00 checks towards a new VW.

deming February 2nd, 2009 06:11

I would take $2000 worth of VW parts, at cost, for each of my two basket cases. Not only did they screw up the design and engineering of our engine, but they cannot even supply enough of the newer parts
(BS upgrade) so that the problem can be fixed.

aja8888 February 2nd, 2009 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Route 66
I could see VW giving customers $1000.00-$2000.00 checks towards a new VW.

Since most of these chains are failing outside of warranty (now), I personally give that a "slim to no" possibility. Car makers have to be brought into court and almost tarred and feathered before they will pay or fix anything outside of the warranty period. Now, if it is deemed a safety issue, then that's a different story and they will recall the sold vehicles.

Tony

leobg February 2nd, 2009 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888
Since most of these chains are failing outside of warranty (now), I personally give that a "slim to no" possibility. Car makers have to be brought into court and almost tarred and feathered before they will pay or fix anything outside of the warranty period. Now, if it is deemed a safety issue, then that's a different story and they will recall the sold vehicles.

Tony

I agree. Out of warranty - they won't care. However I do believe this is a safety issue. Siezing up the engine at hwy speed is quite likely to end up with a crash, especially for someone who would ignore the red oil can on the dashboard - believe me - there are many people that would ignore it... VW has "some history" of recalling out of warranty vehicles, however, judging of the numbers of TDI 2004/5 sold, I doubt we can raise enough noise. Until someone of us end up in a crash due to a seized up engine on the hwy (the hard way).

My car is now closing up 60K miles (93K km). I do believe mine is getting lauder (it is hard to judge when there is no other passat TDI around), however it doesn't vibrate that bad (IMO) or making any noise aside of the diesel clatter I am used to (again IMO). I don't have extended warranty and my factory warranty - drivetrain - not sure if this is covered at all under drivetrain - hope it is, will expire mid this year.
$3K+ (turn that in CDN and taxes - $4K+ :( ) is a lot of money to swallow and hope VW would cover something/anything. As much as I like my Passat and was planing to keep it longer than warranties go up to, I may want to get rid of it... oh my...

aja8888 February 2nd, 2009 08:52

leobg: yes, it's hard to swallow that cost, but once the chain drive is gone, the car should be much more reliable and have less engine vibration. I am keeping mine for another 100k or until the wheels fall off after putting this much cash into it at once.

oilhammer February 2nd, 2009 10:12

I think these are great cars otherwise, and once this is done should be the end of it. My biggest issue right now is the parts shortage. :rolleyes:

Sprocket February 2nd, 2009 10:24

Any update on that front?

oilhammer February 2nd, 2009 11:01

Nope. I have enough here now to do the one loose engine that has been here a while, and the 4 others coming in this coming weekend from out of town.

My list of cars needing this grows DAILY. I am up over 30 now. :o

FL2AK-tdi February 3rd, 2009 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888
Every online retailer I do business with will NOT CHARGE my card until the order ships.

Yeah, this USED to be a stndard online business practice--to not charge he customer's card under the order was filled. I HOPE it is still a standard practice.

Bora did this to me last week, but, I'm less concerned over a $70, non-essential item than you should be over a thousand bucks. Plus, it might have been a human error. At least his shipping was reasonable so, in my case, I guess I can't complain. He answers his emails and phone messages quite promptly.

The guys at Impex have always been personable and friendly; I'm just sick of their crazy shipping policy and their refusal to ship USPS--unless, of course, it's THEIR dime.

Typically, the shipping costs equal the cost of buying the parts or, at best, are about half the cost of the good. I have to plan my purchases with them very carefully because of the shipping. I've asked repeatedly for them to ship USPS. They once set me a faulty glowplug. It was going to be like $20 to ship ONE glow plug. Becuase THEY had to pay for the shhipping, they sent it first class US Mail for $5. But when I have to pay for it, no, they can't ship US Mail.

So, I'm looking for another vendor. i wish Bora and tdi parts had their websites set up like Impex. (hint hint!) Impex's website is almost like having your own VW google. If our registered vendors cold have sites like that...

senez February 4th, 2009 04:52

I still don't know what to do about this situation...

I have a car sitting in my driveway I'm making payments on that doesn't move.

It will cost me around 3k, possibly more to fix it. I have to wait MONTHS for the parts to come in and then drive to a reputable mechanic to fix it (as far away as Oilhammer, hopefully as close as Import Autowerks [haven't heard back]).

:mad:
:(

The only good news is that the diesel-gasoline cost gap in my area is closing to around 40 cents difference. But I can't drive my diesel.

oilhammer February 4th, 2009 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by senez
I still don't know what to do about this situation...

I have a car sitting in my driveway I'm making payments on that doesn't move.

It will cost me around 3k, possibly more to fix it. I have to wait MONTHS for the parts to come in and then drive to a reputable mechanic to fix it (as far away as Oilhammer, hopefully as close as Import Autowerks [haven't heard back]).

:mad:
:(

The only good news is that the diesel-gasoline cost gap in my area is closing to around 40 cents difference. But I can't drive my diesel.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=230060 :)

senez February 4th, 2009 05:01

Yeah, I wish I could do that this weekend. For reals. The only thing that scares me about St. Louis is the drive...and it ripping to shreds on the way there. I'd prefer you'd do it, as the pioneer of sorts...

I have too much work to take off to St. Louis, though.

MOGolf February 4th, 2009 07:15

I think it is time to ask that this thread be locked. There seems to be a lack of comments about the topic (the replacement procedure) and more about other rants. :rolleyes:

oilhammer February 4th, 2009 07:22

I vote for trimmed and locked, although the original post remains intact, which is all that counts anyways.

FL2AK-tdi February 4th, 2009 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOGolf
I think it is time to ask that this thread be locked. There seems to be a lack of comments about the topic (the replacement procedure) and more about other rants. :rolleyes:

Your new nickname is "Lock Box." =)

DickSilver February 4th, 2009 17:22

Today I got my 2004 B5.5V back from my local preferred shop with the geared BS module properly installed. This was the first one they had done. They worked carefully and did everything right the first time. Details are as follows:

The shop is: Fast Enough Performance, in Lexington KY 859-258-2015

The car has 101,000 miles, so I had them do a new timing belt with water pump & tensioner, drain & replace tranny fluid & filter, and remove the chain-driven BS module & replace with the geared module.

On hand already: 505.01 VW oil, G12 coolant
Labor 10 hr $650
Tiptronic fluid & filter $197
Dieselgeek timing belt kit $277
Geared BS module kit from Impex $1342
TOTAL $2466 plus some tax, odds & ends

Since my car had not started to have any of the feared vibrations & noises, I can only speculate how much farther I might have gotten. The chain, sprockets & tensioner were not remarkable for any signs of impending failure, so it's anybody's guess.

leicaman February 4th, 2009 17:40

So does yours sound "different"? Sounds most excellent. Make sure you keep all receipts as you never know what will come down the pike. Good going! :) :p :D :)

abctdi February 4th, 2009 17:45

So that's a ~10% expenditure (of the original cost) at 100k miles.
How does this figure in against other cars at this price point?

DickSilver February 4th, 2009 19:53

One of the closest new cars right now may be a Jetta Sportwagon TDI. Saw one in the stealership the other day for $28,000 & change. Like you say, my $2500 geared BS & other stuff is less than 10% of that, and sets me up for 100K more miles of motoring with proper oil changes & stuff. I can't objectively say my B5.5 runs or sounds "better" or not, but it is FINE now, as ever.

BTW, I can't figure out what is going on in the VW design department. Looked at a Routan, billed as a 7-passenger minivan. The rear seat DOES have 3 seatbelts, but the only adults that will fit back there have gotta have 24 inch hips! Test drove a (Passat) CC last week. I'm 5 feet 7 inches, and I hit my head three times on the edge of the roof getting in & out. Go figure.

owr084 February 5th, 2009 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DickSilver
Test drove a (Passat) CC last week. I'm 5 feet 7 inches, and I hit my head three times on the edge of the roof getting in & out. Go figure.

If your were taller, you would already be conditioned to duck your head:p;). Way too many things are built without consideration to folks over 6' My pet peeves are ATM machines :mad:

Route 66 February 5th, 2009 12:56

I would have spent over $1000.00 to have the repair shop drop the oil pan and look for damage but there are those times when a person must move forward.

DickSilver February 5th, 2009 13:39

Route 66, I suspect that dropping the oil pan & inspecting the BS module chain drive for damage would not be profitable, because what we are hearing from those folks who have had in-use failures, is that they are often unpredictable and go from initial to final failure quickly and usually unpredictably. You would have to be pulling your oil pan very frequently to have any chance of spotting a failure about to happen.

I went back to Fast Enough today & looked over the removed hardware at greater length. The chain itself looks robust, and on mine, no sign of deforming or abnormal wear. On the other hand, the two chain sprockets are very flimsy. As thin as a bicycle sprocket. The chain has room in it for a thicker sprocket, almost twice as thick. Would this have improved the original design? I'm not enough of a mechanical engineering specialist to judge, but the two thin sprockets look like the design's weak point to me. That said, the two sprockets out of my car didn't have any bent, damaged or deformed spots. The slides in the chain tensioner assembly showed "normal" wear, and if they were from a VR6, would have had lots of miles to go.

I feel good about having done the refit now at 101K, with no obvious signs of failure. Much better than buying a 100K added "extended warranty" for about $1800 and placing a bet that (1) the BS module drive would fail and (2) the warrantor would pay up & not weasel out.

vw4life February 5th, 2009 13:42

DickSilver, was your car noisy at all (the sinusoidal mechanical noise that can be separated from the diesel engine noise near the front lower passenager vents?)

DickSilver February 5th, 2009 13:57

Nope, I could detect no unusual noise, except from a slightly elevated heartbeat from worrying if a sudden failure was coming.

Route 66 February 5th, 2009 15:02

The noise that mine was making was that of gears scraping with no lubrication and only hearing it from the power steering pump, i do not think the dealership had a clue that the BS Assembly was making all of this clatter. If some dealerships cannot figure out which oil to use how can they diagnose this BS problem.

DickSilver February 5th, 2009 16:32

Sorry, my misteak.... I lapse into assuming that VW certification of a mechanic implies some troubleshooting skills, as well as being able to find the toolbox. We now have a robot that throws new parts at a car until it works.


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