Long Term Test- Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+

DerekG

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
I've decided document my experience over the next 20k-50k miles with Michelin's new (revised) Pilot Sport A/S 3+ on my 2013 4-door Golf TDI.

I've noticed that a lot of TDI drivers are interested the the UHP All-Season category (I know I am) because they want to take advantage of the nice handling of the MKVI platform while maintaining confidence in the tires when it gets cold or really wet. These drivers may not do track days or autocross, but they do like to have fun in the twisties and blasting up on-ramps.

There are lots of great UHP all-seasons and I'm not implying that this one is the best, but it's the one I chose and it is among the top in it's class. It also seems to be frequently cross-shopped by TDI drivers on this site.


My driving style-

I think my driving style and environment will give the A/S 3+ a good all-around test. My weekday commute is relatively short city driving, but I frequently take curvy back road drives after work to get the TDI up to full operating temp and give it and the tires a good workout.

I also do a fair amount of towing. I mainly tow our 1500# camper or my 500# ATV + trailer. The treadwear of this tire has come into question before. If it wears unreasonably faster in normal unloaded conditions than the 500 treadwear rating implies, then it will be evident when I throw towing into the mix.

Lastly, I do encounter dirt/gravel roads on a semi-regular basis when visiting family or camping. How durable will it be under those conditions?


Initial thoughts and impressions

All the specs and detailed info about the tire are readily available on Tire Rack, Discount Tire, and Michelin's website so I won't post that here, but the specific size I will be using is the stock size of 225/45/zr17.

I have exactly 75 miles on the tires now lol. They were mounted yesterday at my "local" dealer and I drove home and then to work today and it was raining every one of those miles.

While that is entirely too few to judge the grip of the tire I did notice an immediate difference (compared to the stock conti's) in turn-in and mid-corner grip in the wet. I drive the same route to work and there are a few corners that I try and "apex" for fun and the stiffer sidewall is very evident....especially mid-corner.

That being said; the tires have not been harsh on small bumps or road imperfections. My perception of that might be slightly skewed as the conti's were pretty worn and very loud on some of the rougher sections of my commute and any new tire with full tread depth would have made things more quiet, but I digress.

Future Plans

My current plan is to update this thread after the tires have about 1k miles on them and they are somewhat "broken-in". Then I will update every 5k miles when I rotate them and provide a few thoughts, current tread depth, and any special driving situations during those 5k miles. i.e. lots of towing, highway roadtrips, aggressive driving, or special weather/road conditions such as heavy rain, snow, gravel...etc.


Here are some pictures for fun. I really like the look of the tire overall. You can definitely see that it's based on the "famous" Pilot Super Sport, especially on the shoulder of the tire which is cool.

ORG_DSC03774 by DerekG710, on Flickr

ORG_DSC03778 by DerekG710, on Flickr

ORG_DSC03779 by DerekG710, on Flickr

ORG_DSC03781 by DerekG710, on Flickr

ORG_DSC03783 by DerekG710, on Flickr




*Update #1- 4/13/16

Miles on tires- 75

Tread Depth- 10/32nds on all four corners measured on 4 places across tire.
 
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GAZNRN

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2012 JSW
I switched to these tires 9,000 miles ago. Traction, ride, braking & slightly quieter ride. Only down side is I lost 2-3 mpg.
 

GAZNRN

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2012 JSW
I switched to these tires 9,000 miles ago. Traction, ride, braking & slightly quieter ride. Only down side is I lost 2-3 mpg.
 

South Coast Guy

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Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Location
Mattapoisett, MA
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2009 Jetta TDI wagon
Derek, not sure how valuable your subjective experiences will be to most drivers, especially considering the time it will take. Michelin tires are already top-rated.
 

DerekG

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
Derek, not sure how valuable your subjective experiences will be to most drivers, especially considering the time it will take. Michelin tires are already top-rated.

I'm doing this for fun more than anything. My account will be 100% anecdotal and not scientifically carried out as are most internet reviews of tires, but it's interesting to me and others might find it to be as well.

I'm mainly trying to answer my own questions/thoughts I had while shopping for these tires. Also, the fact they are top rated is one reason I decided to write this, as their treadwear rating has come into question.

Lastly, I really want to share how they hold up while towing. That is one rating/spec that I couldn't find for any passenger car tire, much less a UHP all-season.

Constructive criticism is always welcome, thanks.


I switched to these tires 9,000 miles ago. Traction, ride, braking & slightly quieter ride. Only down side is I lost 2-3 mpg.
Awesome, great to hear!
 

SoTxBill

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Dec 14, 2000
Location
its not the base, its the additives!!
TDI
13 passatdsg 10 jetdsg, 09 jetdsg, 2006 jetdsg, 2001Jet, 96passat, 86jet, 81 jet, 78pickup all vw diesel.
I switched to these tires 9,000 miles ago. Traction, ride, braking & slightly quieter ride. Only down side is I lost 2-3 mpg.


All things, equal... new tires will ALWAYS get less mpg than used tires... you will need to break them in.
 

radoroc

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Location
BC, Canada
TDI
2012 Golf
I got the same tires a few weeks ago and my initial impressions are very positive. I can't believe the grip that these tires provide, they are night and day compared to the stock hankooks. I expect to lose some mpg as these are much stickier and not ultra low rolling resistance tires like the hankooks.
 

Waynoooo

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Aug 8, 2011
Location
Bel Air, Maryland
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2011 Golf TDI
Subscribed. I will be due a new set of tires about the time you are making your 10-15K mile report. Thanks for documenting your experience.

Wayne
 

DerekG

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
I'm also interested to see how these do in the long run :)
Subscribed. I will be due a new set of tires about the time you are making your 10-15K mile report. Thanks for documenting your experience.

Wayne
No problem! Great to see some interest in this test. The first 5k mile update will definitely be before summer. I have 3500-4k miles worth of road trip driving in April and May alone, this doesn't count my day to day schedule/commute.
 

Cptcrnch

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Nov 21, 2014
Location
FredCo MD
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2004 Jetta TDI wagon; 2014 Golf TDI (buyback 7/26/17)
I'm definitely interested in what you think of these. I just replaced my Conti's with BFG G-Force Comp 2 AS tires less then 5000 miles ago. It came down to the BFGs and the Michelin tires. It sounds like we have similar driving styles (minus the towing) so I'm interested to see what your results are compared to mine.
 

DerekG

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Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
I'm definitely interested in what you think of these. I just replaced my Conti's with BFG G-Force Comp 2 AS tires less then 5000 miles ago. It came down to the BFGs and the Michelin tires. It sounds like we have similar driving styles (minus the towing) so I'm interested to see what your results are compared to mine.
Nice, I looked at the BFGs in the store last week. Let me know how they wear:cool:.
 

DerekG

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Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
1000 mile update

I'm a little late as I'm almost ready for the 5k update, but for the sake of continuity I'll adhere to the format a mentioned in the first post.

There isn't a lot to say about them at 1000 miles. I noticed that they did quiet down a bit after the first few hundred miles. I won't really speak on performance other than to say that they are fantastic. At this point they definitely live up to the hype of all the reviews I watched/read before buying them.

They are all still at 10/32nds which I would expect. Presumably the dealer didn't mess up the alignment catastrophically.

At this point I'm really enjoying them.

Before the 5k update the tires will have seen a few thousand miles of highway cruising fully loaded and a run through the Smoky Mountains and Tail of the Dragon so I will have lots more to talk about at that time. (should be within the next month or so)

Thanks for reading!
 

gmcjetpilot

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Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Location
Memphis TN
TDI
2010 JSW TDI DSG Matalic Grey
I switched to these tires 9,000 miles ago. Traction, ride, braking & slightly quieter ride. Only down side is I lost 2-3 mpg.
Going from worn to new tires will always lose millage at first.

Worn tires are GREAT for MPG.... bad for turning, stopping, starting.

New tires, are heavier and therefore .. less MPG. Guess about 1% loss in MPG.

New tires, have more traction and rolling resistance..less MPG (but better handling).
I will guess this can be 2% drop in MPG.

New tires, larger diameter, so your indicated miles is less than actual miles.
Your computer or your odometer will be off. You will travel more than indicated.
Don't laugh if a new typical tire has 10/32" tread new, 2/32" old, replaced, that
is 8/32nd difference. The diameter would change total of 16/32"... or 1/2" inch.
225/45-17 has 24.972" diameter. Shave half inch off, that is 24.472. That is
2% alone, but this is more error in mileage measurement than actual loss of
performance.

Add more tire weight and traction/rolling resistance, you can see drop of 3%-5%
calculated MPG is normal. Except a full 2 mpg at least as normal.

The Pro is safety, far better handling, breaking, wet weather traction.
 
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stoner-tdi

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Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Location
cypress, TX
TDI
jetta sportwagen
Going from worn to new tires will always lose millage at first.

Worn tires are GREAT for MPG.... bad for turning, stopping, starting.

New tires, are heavier and therefore .. less MPG. Guess about 1% loss in MPG.

New tires, have more traction and rolling resistance..less MPG (but better handling).
I will guess this can be 2% drop in MPG.

New tires, larger diameter, so your indicated miles is less than actual miles.
Your computer or your odometer will be off. You will travel more than indicated.
Don't laugh if a new typical tire has 10/32" tread new, 2/32" old, replaced, that
is 8/32nd difference. The diameter would change total of 16/32"... or 1/2" inch.
225/45-17 has 24.972" diameter. Shave half inch off, that is 24.472. That is
2% alone, but this is more error in mileage measurement than actual loss of
performance.

Add more tire weight and traction/rolling resistance, you can see drop of 3%-5%
calculated MPG is normal. Except a full 2 mpg at least as normal.

The Pro is safety, far better handling, breaking, wet weather traction.
=mind blown! :eek:
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
Going from worn to new tires will always lose millage at first.

Worn tires are GREAT for MPG.... bad for turning, stopping, starting.

New tires, are heavier and therefore .. less MPG. Guess about 1% loss in MPG.

New tires, have more traction and rolling resistance..less MPG (but better handling).
I will guess this can be 2% drop in MPG.

New tires, larger diameter, so your indicated miles is less than actual miles.
Your computer or your odometer will be off. You will travel more than indicated.
Don't laugh if a new typical tire has 10/32" tread new, 2/32" old, replaced, that
is 8/32nd difference. The diameter would change total of 16/32"... or 1/2" inch.
225/45-17 has 24.972" diameter. Shave half inch off, that is 24.472. That is
2% alone, but this is more error in mileage measurement than actual loss of
performance.

Add more tire weight and traction/rolling resistance, you can see drop of 3%-5%
calculated MPG is normal. Except a full 2 mpg at least as normal.

The Pro is safety, far better handling, breaking, wet weather traction.
Also depends on the tires you choose...

Going from a tire like the stock OEM ProContacts to a more performance oriented tire like the A/S3+ you'll loose a 2-3mpg in favor of much improved handling and traction.

I personally went with the V rated Continental PureContact with Eco+ from the stock ProContacts. I think I actually gained .5-1mpg over the stock tires.
 

radoroc

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Location
BC, Canada
TDI
2012 Golf
Awesome tires. I have about 2000 km's on mine now. I can only break traction in 1st gear in the dry, with full stage 2. In the rain they have amazing traction as well. I have not experienced any slippage with spirited driving around corners as well.

These tires have totally transformed the car, coming from the stock hankooks(garbage). I couldn't be happier, now I just hope they last.
 

DerekG

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
Update 7/14/16

5000 mile update

Rotated F-->B last night.

Here are the stats first before I do any talking.

-Miles on tires- 5,016

-Tread depth- Overall avg I would say is 9/32nds....maybe slightly less.

I measured on 4 spots across each tire. Imagine you are looking at the car from above.


LF- 8/32, 9/32, 9/32, 8/32 RF- 8/32, 8/32, 9/32, 9/32


LR- 9/32, 9/32, 9/32, 8/32 RR- 8/32, 9/32, 9/32, 9/32


At this point I'm still loving the tires. 3k miles of the 5k was with the car fully loaded with a roof box.

I did Tail of the Dragon and while I didn't really attack the curves because of how loaded the car was (and I had my wife and 1yr old in the car) I can say that they didn't even hint at losing grip at all during the 11 mile run. I was very impressed.

Here is a pic during that run...notice how the car looks lowered with all the weight and the fact I was going through a semi-tight righthander.

TDI on Tail of the Dragon1 by DerekG710, on Flickr

TDI on Tail of the Dragon2 by DerekG710, on Flickr

Now on to some pics of the tires as of 1 hour ago.


ORG_DSC05345 by DerekG710, on Flickr

ORG_DSC05349 by DerekG710, on Flickr

ORG_DSC05352 by DerekG710, on Flickr

ORG_DSC05354 by DerekG710, on Flickr

Overall I'm very pleased with them. The next update at 10k should be pretty interesting. Over the next 5k miles, 3k of them will be while towing my camper across TX, NM, and CO. Going to Durango/Ouray/Pikes Peak and a few other places next month followed by a trip to Palo Duro Canyon for fall break.

I didn't experience any weird camber wear on the stock conti's which had about 6k miles of towing on them. I'm attributing that mainly to the car/alignment more than the tire itself, but this should be a good test to see how the Michelin's hold up under these more stressful conditions and if I do see drastically accelerated wear or not.

Thanks for reading!
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
even with the 5k interval, you are rotating front--back?

I have seen some discussion of including side to side moves in the rotation.

(good move to record each tread across the tire....)
 

DerekG

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
even with the 5k interval, you are rotating front--back?

I have seen some discussion of including side to side moves in the rotation.

(good move to record each tread across the tire....)
I think I was in on that discussion as well....or one very similar a few weeks back.

I'm starting front to back. At 10k I'll do a cross rotation and at 15k front to back again. On the 20k rotation i'll do another cross which should put the tires back where they started and then I'll cycle again as needed.
 

DerekG

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
Update 10/19/16

10,000 mile update

-Cross Rotated LF->RR and RF->LR

-Miles on tires- ~10,0xx

-Avg Tread Depth- 7/32

Just like before I measured 4 spots across each tire from the outside to the inside.

LF- 7/32 7/32 7/32 6/32 RF- 6/32 7/32 7/32 7/32

LR- 7/32 7/32 7/32 6/32 RR- 6/32 7/32 7/32 7/32

So overall they are pretty even with some slight camber wear, but it seems to be minimal, consistent, and expected. I'm happy to see that the rears didn't wear more than the fronts after 2500 miles of towing my camper on this rotation.

I did have one "panic stop" the other day (not while towing) and they made me feel really safe. The ABS didn't intervene and I had the pedal mostly planted to the floor.

I won't really comment on performance as they are still living up to the hype and I don't have any complaints as of today. They are still reasonably quiet for a UHP all-season....not as quiet as the Conti Extreme Contacts on my 545i, but they definitely handle better.

few pics as they sit now..

ORG_DSC07020 by DerekG710, on Flickr

ORG_DSC07019 by DerekG710, on Flickr

ORG_DSC07023 by DerekG710, on Flickr

Thanks for reading! See you at 15k!
 
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Cptcrnch

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Nov 21, 2014
Location
FredCo MD
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI wagon; 2014 Golf TDI (buyback 7/26/17)
Thanks for the update! So far my BFG G-Force Comp 2 A/S are at about the same depth at the same mileage. However they can only be rotated front to rear as they are directional. I'm intrigued to see how yours compare with cross rotation to my F/R only rotation.

I'm not sure what the climate is like in OK during the winter. Will you be swapping to winter/snow tires?

And to go along with your post from July - took the GF to the Skyline Dr last weekend. The fall colors were amazing and bathed in the golden hour light made for some great photos. I bought the Shenandoah annual pass and will definitely be putting some road trip miles on these tires.
 

DerekG

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Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
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'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
Awesome! Glad to hear they are holding up. I really wanted to have a multi-directional tire just so I could fully rotate them.

Winters here are pretty mild. Definitely not enough snow/ice to justify snow tires. Last winter it didn't snow even once lol. That is uncharacteristic though...we usually have 3-8 periods of snow during the winter, but still not enough to get dedicated snow tires.

We do have many days below 40F which is one reason I chose the A/S 3+ over the Super Sport.
 

gmcjetpilot

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Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Location
Memphis TN
TDI
2010 JSW TDI DSG Matalic Grey
I am just about to replace my old Michelin Primacy MX4's for new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S +3, 94Y.....

I got a great deal from Discount Tire on line. Free shipping. $70 sale price off that. Also if you apply and pay for the tires with a Discount Tire credit card another $50 off. I ended up paying. 680-70-50 = 560 for 4 or $135/each. The installation is about $16 each + a few bucks extra if they dispose of them. That includes free rotation and balance for the life of the tires.

My old tires still have 3.5/32 on average (less on the side treads). It is not down to wear bars (2/32), but the shoulder treads are worn down to 2/32 or less. The wear bars are only on the middle grooves. Total time/miles on the MXM3's, a tad over 4 years and 42K miles. If it were spring and dry season I'd drive them another 6K miles. However it is getting wet. Our first gulley washer after a big dry spell I could tell it was hydro planning where water had pooled on the freeway. However last week and the motivation to change them a little early, 3 drywall screws in my tire, two full depth and one partial. Of the 3 one was near the shoulder.

This one tire had two previous plugs from early in it's life. It then had three more deep punctures last week. Tire shop would not fix the one in the shoulder or the other two because of that shoulder puncture. Don't blame them, liability. I saw a YOUTUBE video of a plug almost exactly like mine (#1 plug in picture below) done on a Michelin, rolling a Honda. His video showed it was still going strong at 21 months. His was even further out and bulging the side will slightly. So instead of driving on my spare and seeing the TPMS warning, I fixed it myself with a $3 Harbor Freight 5 plug kit. In the process of repairing it, I found two small punctures that were leaking a whisper, not even enough to plug. I hate plugs, internal patches are best. However on these old tires that are almost worn out, temp repair, they have been working great. Holding pressure, lost about 0.3 psi in 5 days may be.

 
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turbobrick240

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Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Yikes. Time to pick all those nails up off your driveway. :)
 

gmcjetpilot

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Location
Memphis TN
TDI
2010 JSW TDI DSG Matalic Grey
I know... anyway it is all for the best. I have the new Pilot Sports A/S 3+
installed two days ago. I'm going to avoid a side street where they are
doing construction.

OP is looking at mileage. It depends on how you drive, but I expect 40-50K,
like my MXM4's. These are performance tires and have kind of soft compound.
However the question is do you really want to drive to the 2/32" limit.

Your wet traction takes a big hit at less than 4/32". I had about 42K on my
MXM4's and could have milked another 5-6K of them, down to the wear bar.
 
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DerekG

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Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
I'd say 50k would be stretch, but if most of your driving is highway it should be doable. At the rate I'm going I'll be at ~4-5/32 at the 20k mile mark. I was hoping for 30k-35k so we'll see.
 

gmcjetpilot

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Location
Memphis TN
TDI
2010 JSW TDI DSG Matalic Grey
I'd say 50k would be stretch, but if most of your driving is highway it should be doable. At the rate I'm going I'll be at ~4-5/32 at the 20k mile mark. I was hoping for 30k-35k so we'll see.
Yes I agree. I was talking about the Primacy MXM4's I had... They went 42K. As I say if willing to drive it to the wear bars it might have made 50K. Safe? Not really.

From what I read the Pilot Sport A/S 3+ might be softer and only have a 40K warranty, which is less than many Michelins with 50K. So about 5K to 10K less miles than warranty is about right....
 
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